Bear protection handguns?

[xsn10s]

There was a member here that is no longer on the forum. He bashed the heck out of those that chose the 10mm for a bear defense choice. I mean had no problem doing it because he shot a 44 magnum. Constantly kept insisting it didn't have enough power to get in the bear where it needed to be to stop it. States that it was inadequate. All ignorant statements as it's been proven false dozens of time. Now with all the Western and Alaskan guides also concluding that the 357, 40 caliber and even 9mm calibers can and have worked on stopping these threats, I see less people making those false statements. Funny how these things work.

My choice was a 44 mag stoked with 300 gr WFN hardcast boowits. But in my prime I could shoot those really well. I'm getting long in the tooth now so who knows what my level of proficiency would be with that load. Phil Shoemaker dropped a griz during an attack with his 9mm loaded with some hardcast 147gr. But he's got far more knowledge on bears than I do. I'll shoot the biggest handgun, as a backup, that I can. In reality I bruise like a peach now so I'll do my best to avoid bears lol.

 

[xsn10s]

Na, I get it. I prefer Glocks but they aren't for everyone.

Heck I don't even like Glocks because of their grip angle. But I trained alot with one so it's part of my EDC rotation. The G23 and a Hellcat OSP. If there was a lighter, thinner, exposed hammer semi auto with the same capacity I'd look at one.

 

[Morrison]

Old thread I know. I also know your still around so check out the new Sig p320 XTen. Great strides better in hand than the G20/21/40/41. Can't say it's reliability is that of the Glocks because that counts more. I'll just say it's a much better pistol in most hands comfort wise.

I also like the 10mm, but I think it is too light for Brown and Grizzly Bears. I did make a different decision with my Glock 21. I bought a conversion barrel, EFK Fire Dragon, and turned it into a 400 Corbon with ammunition from Underwood.

 

[VLD Pilot]

My choice was a 44 mag stoked with 300 gr WFN hardcast boowits. But in my prime I could shoot those really well. I'm getting long in the tooth now so who knows what my level of proficiency would be with that load. Phil Shoemaker dropped a griz during an attack with his 9mm loaded with some hardcast 147gr. But he's got far more knowledge on bears than I do. I'll shoot the biggest handgun, as a backup, that I can. In reality I bruise like a peach now so I'll do my best to avoid bears lol.

He's probably the guy that would tell everyone that he never thought a non-magnum pistol would be a good decision in the Alaskan bush. It was a last minute choice for him before that guided fishing trip. I spoke to him at an event to book a brown bear hunt with his Grizzly Skins guide service. He still carries his big wheel guns but as much carries semi auto loaders. His choice is also a 10mm auto loader today over the 9mm.

 

[asd9055]

Heck I don't even like Glocks because of their grip angle. But I trained alot with one so it's part of my EDC rotation. The G23 and a Hellcat OSP. If there was a lighter, thinner, exposed hammer semi auto with the same capacity I'd look at one.

Lighter would be hard to beat. For me, knowing my self, DA/SA no external safety, carry loaded, and be safe are the must haves. Again, thats for ME! not anyone else.

 

[fta0303]

Magnaport did wonders to my Freedom Arms in 454. Recoil does not bother me but when I first fired it, I was surprised. It was worse than my 3" S&W 500. After porting its a pleasure to shoot.

If you go with a larger caliber consider Magnaport.

It's interesting. I have a number of Freedom Arms handguns, Model 83s (.454, .475, 500 WE) and 97s (.41 Mag, .35 Colt). For me, they all handle recoil very well, having a big fat grip that let's me get a really firm hand on the gun. Then, just hang on, it'll blow your arm all over, but doesn't hurt. One of each caliber has ~ 4" barrels; I find the barrel length makes no significant difference to recoil, surprisingly. I have 7.5" barrels in .454, 475 and .45 Colt, to get greater range. I inherited one 7.5" Model 83 .454 from my father, who never shot it much, being over 70 when he bought it. He had that one magnaported. Compared to my unported 7.5" .454, it focuses the recoil straight back, cutting muzzle jump. But it did nothing for the recoil intensity. What did really affect recoil intensity is the grip - Dad didn't like the great big grip that came on the gun, so whittled away at it over the years. He finally got it to where he wanted it, much like the grip on a COlt SAA (which had been "his" gun back in the day before the 44 Mag). It felt great for handling, but shooting it was an exercise in masochism = it hurt, especially with those Buffalo Bore 360 gr bear loads. I had the grip replaced at factory.

I'm lucky enough to have a John Linebaugh Ruger Bisley in 500 Linebaugh - a very nice shooting gun, until you stoke it with the elephant load, 525 gr WFN GC bullet at 1100 fps. I can't keep that one from rolling and beating my hand to death. John's advice was, "Don't shoot that round - nothing on earth requires it. He was right. It's about half a 458 Win Mag, in a revolver. I thought very well of John.

RIght up there with the Linebaugh running the elephant load is the S&W 329 PD. From the factory, that one would never fire more than 1 round from the cylinder full, the lock that came on the gun would freeze it up. So I removed that. That gun was very painful to shoot - it felt like I'd swung the flat of hand as hard as I could against a concrete wall. It stung "electrically", rolling my hand back and carrying my arm instantaneously up beside my left ear. I couldn't control the gun and it hurt to shoot, so I sent it off to get it magnaported, on the chance that that would make it shootable. Kelly's quadraported it. When I got it back, I could shoot it about as comfortably as my steel & nickel 4" S&W .44 Mag (also inherited from Dad). Christian Ed not withstanding.

So my experience is that with handguns, magnaporting is far more effective in taming muzzle jump than in altering recoil power. Quadraporting the 4" barrel 329 PD made it into a shootable handgun from the utter beast that it was out out of the box. Magnaporting didn't do much for me on the long barrel .454.

All of this experience applies to me. Felt recoil with a handgun is very subjective and depends greatly on how well the grip suits you. I have a short thick hand, which in handling alone makes me want a smaller grip. But in shooting the big ones, I need a big grip. It makes me wonder whether guys with Bill Jordan hands (huge, half again as big as mine) might not need an even bigger grip than Freedom Arms puts on their guns. Maybe like the Pachmeyr beast that came on my Field Grade .454, which I had trouble even getting into my hand.

 

[fta0303]

Buffalo Bore, Underwood and Double Tap are all great companies to look at for great Bear defense ammo. Not to say Lost river isn't but I have no reason to leave those three other companies to look for what I am currently getting from the ones I'm using today. Buffalo bore shoots the best in my pistols. Underwood is by far the least expensive offering equal performance to Buffalo Bore. Both of those appear to offer better ballistics than Lost river in 10mm. The Lost River 9mm 148s look interesting tho.

Buffalo Bore provides high quality stuff at a stiff price, but if you want really good ammo, go Buffalo Bore. Tim seems to put a lot of thought into what is needed in various applications, then supplies the need. HIs writings are worthwhile also. I reload everything, but if I go to bear country, I want Tim's ammo in my cylinder or mag.

 

[fta0303]

My goto is a S&W 329PD in 44mag, with Buffalo Bear cartridges designed for this revolver. It only weighs 26 oz so recoil is ferocious. It is an N frame revolver that will accept an X-frame one piece grip, which I strongly suggest you get. Practice with 44 Special ammo, for as S&W says, this is a revolver you hope you never have to shoot.

Quadraporting by Kelly makes this gun into something that you can actually stand and shoot for a while. I highly recommend it on this gun. Befire quadraporting, the gun was beside my left ear almost before I pulled the trigger, driving shootin pain in my gunhand. After, it was like shooting the same ammo in a 4" steel Model 29. Absolutely amazing difference.

 

[fta0303]

Do people try different brands of bear spray, to see how they feel in the hand?

Handgun feel/comfort is way over blown.

Absolutely disagree, after 70 years of big bore shooting.

 

[fta0303]

Never been a fan of how Glocks feel. I shoot 1911s much better accuracy wise. I've been depending on Glocks since the late 80s tho. They are the most dependable auto loaders I've ever shot out of the box. This matters more than (precision) accuracy. At defense ranges, they work best for me and most. That being inside 10 yards and pointing and shooting without being concerned with a safety or hammer. All this said, I only carry Glocks for defense. I shoot my 1911s a lot at the range and playing on steel targets. This is just my opinion.

I shied away from Glock for years, snorting at the "plastic gun". Then I bought a Glock 20. Opened the box to find 3 magazines. The instruction book was clear and useful - best I've seen on anything. Before even before putting the gun to hand, I had the idea that the people who made it were very serious about their product. Despite the different grip angle, the gun is very good to shoot, so far hasn't failed once. I cut my eye teeth on a 1911, fired thousands of rounds of .22 LR through the Colt conversion kit. Love the 1911. Carry the Glock.

 

[VLD Pilot]

Buffalo Bore provides high quality stuff at a stiff price, but if you want really good ammo, go Buffalo Bore. Tim seems to put a lot of thought into what is needed in various applications, then supplies the need. HIs writings are worthwhile also. I reload everything, but if I go to bear country, I want Tim's ammo in my cylinder or mag.

I started out using the 220 hardcasts in my G20 years ago. Right after they released that round. Found out that they didn't shoot good in my particular pistol. Couldn't keep all rounds on a paper plate at 25 yards. Decided to go with the Underwood 220 coated bullet round. Fast forward to a few years ago. Put a BarSto barrel on my G20 and the buffalo Bores dis better than the Underwood. Better groups and better feeding even with the uncoated bullets. I think it mostly depends on what the pistol likes.

 

[fta0303]

I am by no means an expert handgun shooter, but fit means a great deal to me. I have average sized hands but chose my last pistol based on fit. It came with different grip spacers for the rear (HK45). I still shoot revolvers more accurately. I find it interesting that I can generally put the first shot more accurately with SW500 and a Python 357 than the HK45. Every auto loader pistol I have ever had that experienced stove pipes or failure to fire when practicing have been sold including a beautiful Kimber custom shop. Glocks just never felt good in my hand and were definitely not pleasing to my eyes.

Same experience with Kimber - 3% failures-to-feed with all ammo I could get. Gun was worse than useless. Great luck with Glock, Colt, and S&W Performance Shop. My SIG P320 SAO is also very reliable.

 

[fta0303]

Drawing and acquiring the target super fast with a Big Bore magnum doesn't lend itself to any accurate first shot scenario. Sure some can and I applaud their skills. It's just not gonna happen with 95% of the people wanting a bear defense pistol. Again, whatever you feel confident using but be 100% honest with yourself and don't be that guy bragging about what he carries on the Bear bush for defense. Listen to most of the Alaskan guides today about this subject. 10-15 years ago those same guides swore by the big bore magnums. Not so much today. They are jumping on the other train where shooting an accurate fast followup pistol is more important. Especially one that shoots fast and accurate and carries much more comfortably. Use what you can shoot best. Glocks don't rule in that category.

And use WFN hard cast bullets.

 

[fta0303]

I started out using the 220 hardcasts in my G20 years ago. Right after they released that round. Found out that they didn't shoot good in my particular pistol. Couldn't keep all rounds on a paper plate at 25 yards. Decided to go with the Underwood 220 coated bullet round. Fast forward to a few years ago. Put a BarSto barrel on my G20 and the buffalo Bores dis better than the Underwood. Better groups and better feeding even with the uncoated bullets. I think it mostly depends on what the pistol likes.

220 gr is a lot for that "octagonal rifled" barrel...