I didn't see the post that said the 6.5 creedmoor is a blistering fast cartridge.I'm responding to the word 'blistering'. In no sense is a 6.5 Creed blistering. Certainly it's enough gun for a deer.
Please folks read my comments carefully. I'm not trying to get anybody's goat. I'm an engineer by training and a professional data scientist, a very data-driven guy. If my post gives you the impression I'm trying to inflame someone, I'm perhaps not communicating effectively. My goal is always to determine fact in the most systematic practical way.
My comment about the Creed is about folks having an almost religious devotion to the caliber, to the point that they begin to think of it as a "blistering" fast caliber. There's no basis in engineering fact for that word choice. It can only reflect a triumph of rifle marketers who lately have latched on to a certain caliber's recent ascendency in 1,000-yard competition and turned it into an empirically unrealistic idea that there's something magic about this caliber. Once upon a time folks spoke in similarly hushed tones about the 7mm Rem. Mag. and Weatherbys.
In my professional world, we deal with the "AI effect." That means when new AI is invented, the general public says, "Ooh, ahh, artificial intelligence!" Once the same AI is a few years old, folks say, "Oh, that's just software." Those of us in the AI trade realize: it's all just software. Many Creed owners say things online that sound like, "Ooh, aah, artificial intelligence!" A few years from now they'll wake up one day and realize yeah, it's just another gun.
Guns are tools, and the folks who use them most effectively become as objective as possible about the nature of their tools. If you want to get reasonably excited about a 6.5 for its muzzle velocity, get a 26 Nosler. If you want to celebrate the Creed, fine, but get excited about its real virtues. Don't let the gun companies pull one over on you.
Are we good?
I agree and my experience has shown small hole in and same size out usually means multiple shots, long death time, and even lost animals normally found dead within a short distance. I could not help but notice you mentioned 7mm STW....yes the original 28 Nosler. My personal experience with three bull elk was my first education on what I call bullet failure. This was late 90's and I was shooting Moly coated (I coated them) 160 Speer Grand Slam @ 3300FPS. I had never shot them into an animal before but this was the only bullet that was as accurate as I wanted in this rifle ( .5"/5 shot at 100yds.) Plus, according to the media world they were a premium never fail hunting bullet.I'm glad you found him. That small hole in small hole out is not the type of bullet performance one needs on a Coues deer. Penciling through equals exactly what you experienced. Hope it doesn't happen on an elk, you'll never find it. All I can say is I've been hunting Coues deer for 30 years, seen a couple of dozen shot or so and shot a bunch myself. The only time I lost one was using a hard bullet. Barnes TTSX that hit low in and forward in the chest. That cured me of using hard bullets on these deer. I can also say we have never lost one to a hit from a Berger, ouch ;-). Every one I have shot or have seen shot with a Berger never goes more then about 20 yards. Including the one my daughter shot last year which liquefied the deer's liver. These deer are soft like antelope and softer bullets work better, its not an elk or a zebra. Which by the way, a 156gr Berger from my 6.5 PRC put a DRT moment on a 500lb Zebra back in August at 240 yards, just saying.
The other thing that's always been a rule in rough country for us is use way more gun than needed. Back in the day it was 300 Win mags and 7mm STW, 300 Weatherby, and 30-378 Weatherby. Of course those older cartridges still work fine today as well we just have better bullets and range finder gear.
Only pumpernickel though.The Creed is the best thing since sliced bread.
Rule #1It doesn't sound like your difficulty was around accuracy, or the caliber of your rifle per se (or for that matter your evident tracking skill). You bullets just weren't hitting hard enough to bring the animal down where it stood, in spite of your admirable shooting.
As I remarked previously, I started out hunting mule deer in the 90s with a 243 Win, shooting 80-90 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets. Even perfect shots at modest range (200 yards) sometimes resulted in the deer running 50 yards into the pinon-juniper forest, where it would take time to find it. My experience led me to heavier bullets (which at the time, for that rifle, meant getting a 270 that shot 130-150 grain bullets). Perhaps you'll reach a similar conclusion, but maybe in your case hunting a heavier bullet with your 6.5 Creed. You had a great hunt, and probably the only way you could have improved on it would have been to bring the animal down where it stood with your first shot.
Please understand, by discussing "ethical" shooting I don't mean to attack your character or judgment. In this context, "ethical shot" is just hunter jargon for a shot that one can reasonably expect to harvest quickly and humanely. I'm sure you want that as much as any hunter. A lot of variables go into the decision whether a shot was ethical. You had a guide, and in my opinion part of a guide's job is to assess whether to let or encourage their client to take a shot, relying on the client's reports about their shooting abilities. If your guide said shoot, you must have felt you were on solid ground. I'd bet my bottom dollar (I'm ashamed to say) I've lost more animals than you to bad shooting or bad luck. I would wish for you that you learn from my experience, rather than repeating it. As I said, it feels terrible to lose a wounded game animal.
Not a chanceBe careful you might convince him to try one. If so, climate change is real because Hell would freeze over!!
We love you anyway Bean.
I work with 16 engineers that sound just like you, you can call it what ever you want but an 85 grain pill@ 3400fps in a Needmoor is blisteringI'm responding to the word 'blistering'. In no sense is a 6.5 Creed blistering. Certainly it's enough gun for a deer.
Please folks read my comments carefully. I'm not trying to get anybody's goat. I'm an engineer by training and a professional data scientist, a very data-driven guy. If my post gives you the impression I'm trying to inflame someone, I'm perhaps not communicating effectively. My goal is always to determine fact in the most systematic practical way.
My comment about the Creed is about folks having an almost religious devotion to the caliber, to the point that they begin to think of it as a "blistering" fast caliber. There's no basis in engineering fact for that word choice. It can only reflect a triumph of rifle marketers who lately have latched on to a certain caliber's recent ascendency in 1,000-yard competition and turned it into an empirically unrealistic idea that there's something magic about this caliber. Once upon a time folks spoke in similarly hushed tones about the 7mm Rem. Mag. and Weatherbys.
In my professional world, we deal with the "AI effect." That means when new AI is invented, the general public says, "Ooh, ahh, artificial intelligence!" Once the same AI is a few years old, folks say, "Oh, that's just software." Those of us in the AI trade realize: it's all just software. Many Creed owners say things online that sound like, "Ooh, aah, artificial intelligence!" A few years from now they'll wake up one day and realize yeah, it's just another gun.
Guns are tools, and the folks who use them most effectively become as objective as possible about the nature of their tools. If you want to get reasonably excited about a 6.5 for its muzzle velocity, get a 26 Nosler. If you want to celebrate the Creed, fine, but get excited about its real virtues. Don't let the gun companies pull one over on you.
Are we good?
I didn't see the post that said the 6.5 creedmoor is a blistering fast cartridge.
Ah! Perhaps you all would be kind enough to substitute 'killing quickly' or 'harvesting quickly' for 'ethical', when you read my previous posts. Meanwhile, I'll edit away the word (but not the idea).Rule #1
- We do not discuss ethics. To do so will result in the post or posts being edited or deleted.
That is blistering for a creedmoor. He didn't say the 6.5 creedmoor was a blistering fast cartridge
I think he meant "blistering" compared to other Needmore loads.
That's funny!The Creed is the best thing since sliced bread.