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AZ Coues deer-6.5 Creedmore and Hammers

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Glenn Tullius said:
As I promised... a report on my Coues deer hunt in AZ, with the 6.5 Creed, and the 85 grain Hammers. I harvested a beautiful 110" buck at 430 yards! My gun is a Wby Vanguard RC, stock box factory. Range Certified (RC), with a Leupold Vx6, 4-12 power, with the CDS dial, for the 85 grain Hammer at a blistering 3455 fps ave. My load for the Hammers shoots under .600" at 200 yards routinely. Having said that...

First shot at 458 yards, CDS set at 460, was 3" over the back, guide witness vapor trail. Second shot at 434 after CDS adjustment hit him just under the spine, buck never flinched, but started walking down hill. Third shot now at 429 after two clicks down, and hit him about 4" left of heart and 3" inches low. Buck jumped and kicked hind legs like a heart shot. All three perfect for windage.

After a half hour (never saw him lay down) we crossed the canyon and started trailing from second shot (no blood or hair), and second hit showed 3-4 blood spots, with one being about 3" diameter dark red blood.

We then painstakingly slow TRAILED THIS BUCK, with almost no blood at all, for 4 1/2 HOURS. He walked slowly the whole time, which gave me some hope, but crushed me when he started back up hill across the canyon, and we lost his trail. Decision time, looked like he when up the right side once, so instinct told me to go up the left and it proved correct. After climbing about 150 yards, I saw him walking slowly through brush and cactus, and when he stopped I dropped him at 137 yards with the finisher!

Observations: meat under spine was destroyed, with a few pedals found, small hole in, small hole out. Broad side shot, small hole in, small hole out. I would have thought either one would have been deadly in 50 yards. All blood stayed internal and in 6-7 feet of brush and cactus, all I can say is luck and Divine Intervention saved me from the loss of a B&C buck. Had we not trailed him so slow (and had to) he could have laid down, and we never would have found him. My guide remarked with jubilation, " I tell everybody all the time these bigger Coues bucks can be hard to kill"... I agree.View attachment 308345
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Nice buck! Huge
 
ButterBean said:
I agree, I'm just trying to figure it out
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Keep us posted , but any way you slice it it was at the low end of design for any expansion especially when hit in soft tissue I would be surprised if it was even a 1500 fps impact if it hit bone there would have been a blood trail that's a tall order for a small bullet I think the bullet performance was impressive too penetrate through and through at that distance penetration definitely is not the issue the bullet simply did not open at that impact velocity what ever it may have been the no man land shot is not lethal but the close too heart shot was it's evident there was minimal blood loss with no bleed from the lungs when the lungs collapse the animal stops
 
Hard rock said:
Penetration wasn't the issue
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Agree, and I quickly changed my Post to,.. "Mushroom" ( for, "Shock" Power and Blood, loss ! )
He probably hit the Deer in the "No Mans land" area,.. under the Spine.
I had, a completely, Blood Soaked, Arrow, a solid, "Pass Thru" on, a Nice Muley Buck @ 37 Yards, here in Idaho,.. SAME AREA !
Wound covered over with, Hide and soon there was,.. NO Blood Trail ! Chit, was I,.. piszzed !
We "Grid searched", all 3 of us for, a couple of Hours,.. NOTHING !!!
With a Bullet, it's best to Break the Shoulder or Scramble the Heart Lung area,. IMO !
 
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Hard rock said:
Keep us posted , but any way you slice it it was at the low end of design for any expansion especially when hit in soft tissue I would be surprised if it was even a 1500 fps impact if it hit bone there would have been a blood trail that's a tall order for a small bullet I think the bullet performance was impressive too penetrate through and through at that distance penetration definitely is not the issue the bullet simply did not open at that impact velocity what ever it may have been the no man land shot is not lethal but the close too heart shot was it's evident there was minimal blood loss with no bleed from the lungs when the lungs collapse the animal stops
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I concur
 
ButterBean said:
My numbers were wrong , I fat fingered the app he would have been around 2000fps depending on altitude so he would have been good to go with the 85 at that range, All apologies Once again the 85 is Good To Go at 475
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I would say res ipsa loquitur: the thing speaks for itself. It didn't sound like he was good to go. It sounded like he tracked a wounded deer for hours, and speaking as a hunter with a heart, that's not what you call an ideal harvest. If you hit a deer at about 450 yards several times with the same type of bullet, and end up trailing it for several hours, it sounds like either your aim was off (were you shooting from too far away to shoot accurately with a certain probability? what probability is acceptable?), or the bullet didn't do its job (maybe because it isn't going fast enough to expand properly? how much energy is enough to kill quickly?). I realize there's a perennial debate about retained energy, terminal ballistics, and humane l hunting (see e.g. https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editorial/addressing-the-foot-pound-fallacy/83388). But if this forum isn't the place to discuss what makes for a high-probability-of-quick-kill long-ish shot on a deer, what forum exactly is?
 
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