AZ Coues deer-6.5 Creedmore and Hammers

[Reelamin]

I love these type of threads now. I used to jump all over things with harsh replies I disagreed with, and the obviously (internet not real world information) posts years ago. I had to stop and I have no social media anymore. After I found out what was going on with me it was determined a forum could be great therapy for me using my learned skills. I picked a topic I enjoy greatly and jumped back in. So far its working!!!

 

[Hard rock]

My numbers were wrong , I fat fingered the app he would have been around 2000fps depending on altitude so he would have been good to go with the 85 at that range, All apologies Once again the 85 is Good To Go at 475

Are you sure your wrong ? A 264 win mag starting out at 3600 fps with a 87 gr Speer is at 2645 fps at 200 yds your talking 450 yds I would recheck that I still don't think the 1800 fps impact vel is there I stand too be corrected

 

[ButterBean]

Are you sure your wrong ? A 264 win mag starting out at 3600 fps with a 87 gr Speer is at 2645 fps at 200 yds your talking 450 yds I would recheck that I still don't think the 1800 fps impact vel is there I stand too be corrected

Yeah something is wrong here in the calculator, It's not adding up, I'm looking at all my other stuff and it's way out of line

 

[Idaho Lefty]

The thing is, the bullet did what it was supposed to according to Hammers description: without destroying meat. They are superbly accurate, tolerate any seat depth practically, but if I were to do it again I would choose a heaver bullet, say, the 123 grain Hammer. However, for this hunt in tall brush cover and cactus, I would shoot a Scirrocco, a ballistic tip, or a maybe a Berger, just anything that puts a BIG EXIT HOLE IN IT!!

I've been studying GOOD, 6.5 Creed Bullets and found, the TOP "Flite" Bullets ( FOR; Accuracy at, Distance / Expansion / best, Killing ) for, the 6.5 Creed, ARE,.. Berger, 140 grain Elite Hunters, 135 gr. Classic Hunters, 140 and 147 gr. ELD-M's, 130 Sirocco's, AccuBonds, BOTH Reg and ABLR's and there are probably, a couple of others, I'm missing !
Guys are even Killing Elk with, the above mentioned Bullets STUDY them, Test them and pick, a "Good" One !
The Berger's mentioned, probably WON'T, give you, a "Pass Thru" as they are designed to, "Scramble", the "Boiler Room" ( DRT ! ).
Watch some Barbour Creek Vid's on, Bullet Performances as, they TELL you,.. the Winners ! !
The Berger, 140 Classic Hunter out of my .270 WSM, "worked", beautifully for Me, on an Elk, a couple of, weeks ago !
Bullet was found in far side Hide / Hair after, a High Shoulder shot and NOT horrible, Meat Destruction ( a few, Bullet Fragments ).
The 140 grain, AccuBonds, did OK, a couple of years ago in Ariz on an Elk, too !
The Berger was, a MORE "impressive" Kill, BUT, I can recommend,.. BOTH !
The 147 gr. ELD-M's will probably be, my choice for my New, 6.5 Creed for Big, Idaho Mulies IF, I can't find, those,.. BERGERS !
GLAD you found your Deer ! I HATE, long Tracking Jobs !!

 

[Hard rock]

I've been studying GOOD, 6.5 Creed Bullets and found, the TOP "Flite" Bullets ( FOR; Accuracy at, Distance / Expansion / best, Killing ) for, the 6.5 Creed, ARE,.. Berger, 140 grain Elite Hunters, 135 gr. Classic Hunters, 140 and 147 gr. ELD-M's, 130 Sirocco's, AccuBonds, BOTH Reg and ABLR's and there are probably, a couple of others, I'm missing !
Guys are even Killing Elk with, the above mentioned Bullets STUDY Them, Test them and pick,.. a "Good" One !
The Berger's mentioned, probably WON'T, give you, a "Pass Thru" as they are designed to, "Scramble", the "Boiler Room" ( DRT ! ).
Watch some Barbour Creek Vid's on, Bullet Performances !
The Berger, 140 Classic Hunter out of my .270 WSM, "worked", beautifully for Me,.. on an Elk, a couple of, weeks ago !
Bullet was found in far side Hide / Hair after, a High Shoulder shot and NOT horrible, Meat Destruction ( a few, Bullet Fragments ).
The 140 grain, AccuBonds, did OK, a couple of years ago in Ariz on Elk, too !
The Berger was, a MORE "impressive" Kill, BUT,.. I can recommend,.. BOTH !
The 147 gr. ELD-M's will probably be, my choice for my New, 6.5 Creed for Big, Idaho Mulies IF, I can't find those,.. BERGERS !

Good luck

 

[xsn10s]

I used JBM G7 .158, 3400 fps, at my altitude of 2200 ft elevation. At 460 yards 2160 fps, but energy of 881 ft/lbs. 400 yards 2306 fps 1004 ft/lbs energy. YMMV

 

[vancewalker007]

As I promised... a report on my Coues deer hunt in AZ, with the 6.5 Creed, and the 85 grain Hammers. I harvested a beautiful 110" buck at 430 yards! My gun is a Wby Vanguard RC, stock box factory. Range Certified (RC), with a Leupold Vx6, 4-12 power, with the CDS dial, for the 85 grain Hammer at a blistering 3455 fps ave. My load for the Hammers shoots under .600" at 200 yards routinely. Having said that...

First shot at 458 yards, CDS set at 460, was 3" over the back, guide witness vapor trail. Second shot at 434 after CDS adjustment hit him just under the spine, buck never flinched, but started walking down hill. Third shot now at 429 after two clicks down, and hit him about 4" left of heart and 3" inches low. Buck jumped and kicked hind legs like a heart shot. All three perfect for windage.

After a half hour (never saw him lay down) we crossed the canyon and started trailing from second shot (no blood or hair), and second hit showed 3-4 blood spots, with one being about 3" diameter dark red blood.

We then painstakingly slow TRAILED THIS BUCK, with almost no blood at all, for 4 1/2 HOURS. He walked slowly the whole time, which gave me some hope, but crushed me when he started back up hill across the canyon, and we lost his trail. Decision time, looked like he when up the right side once, so instinct told me to go up the left and it proved correct. After climbing about 150 yards, I saw him walking slowly through brush and cactus, and when he stopped I dropped him at 137 yards with the finisher!

Observations: meat under spine was destroyed, with a few pedals found, small hole in, small hole out. Broad side shot, small hole in, small hole out. I would have thought either one would have been deadly in 50 yards. All blood stayed internal and in 6-7 feet of brush and cactus, all I can say is luck and Divine Intervention saved me from the loss of a B&C buck. Had we not trailed him so slow (and had to) he could have laid down, and we never would have found him. My guide remarked with jubilation, " I tell everybody all the time these bigger Coues bucks can be hard to kill"... I agree.View attachment 308345

I'm glad you found him. That small hole in small hole out is not the type of bullet performance one needs on a Coues deer. Penciling through equals exactly what you experienced. Hope it doesn't happen on an elk, you'll never find it. All I can say is I've been hunting Coues deer for 30 years, seen a couple of dozen shot or so and shot a bunch myself. The only time I lost one was using a hard bullet. Barnes TTSX that hit low in and forward in the chest. That cured me of using hard bullets on these deer. I can also say we have never lost one to a hit from a Berger, ouch ;-). Every one I have shot or have seen shot with a Berger never goes more then about 20 yards. Including the one my daughter shot last year which liquefied the deer's liver. These deer are soft like antelope and softer bullets work better, its not an elk or a zebra. Which by the way, a 156gr Berger from my 6.5 PRC put a DRT moment on a 500lb Zebra back in August at 240 yards, just saying.

The other thing that's always been a rule in rough country for us is use way more gun than needed. Back in the day it was 300 Win mags and 7mm STW, 300 Weatherby, and 30-378 Weatherby. Of course those older cartridges still work fine today as well we just have better bullets and range finder gear.

 

[ButterBean]

I used JBM G7 .158, 3400 fps, at my altitude of 2200 ft elevation. At 460 yards 2160 fps, but energy of 881 ft/lbs. 400 yards 2306 fps 1004 ft/lbs energy. YMMV

That's what I keep coming up with as well but it just doesn't line up with anything else I have used

 

[Idaho Lefty]

@ Hardrock,..
NOT much "Luck" involved as, I've made a Point of Learning, WHAT,. Bullet, "works" for, the last, 60 Years.
YUP,.. I've had a Few failures and learned from them.
The OP's 85 grain, Mono Bullet DOESN'T have, the Weight retention ( for Shock ) and Power ( Velocity ) to Mushroom "well" at, close to, 500 Yards !
See xsn10's Post, above ! I'm STILL, a LEAD, Cup and Core, "good ole' Boy",.. Believer !
There IS,. NO,.. PERFECT Bullet,.. YET, but, I like to,.. "come close" to picking, the Winners !

 

[xsn10s]

That's what I keep coming up with as well but it just doesn't line up with anything else I have used

It kinda sounds like the OP would like a pretty good blood trail so maybe stepping up to a 7mm or 30 cal like suggested earlier would be a good choice for him. The age old debate lol.

 

[Hard rock]

@ Hardrock,..
NOT much "Luck" involved as, I've made a Point of Learning, WHAT,. Bullet, "works" for, the last, 60 Years.
YUP,.. I've had a Few failures and learned from them.
The OP's 85 grain, Mono Bullet DOESN'T have, the Weight retention ( for Shock ) and Power ( Velocity ) to Penetrate "well" at, close to, 500 Yards !
See xsn10's Post, above ! I'm STILL, a LEAD, Cup and Core, "good ole' Boy" Believer !

Penetration wasn't the issue

 

[ButterBean]

It kinda sounds like the OP would like a pretty good blood trail so maybe stepping up to a 7mm or 30 cal like suggested earlier would be a good choice for him. The age old debate lol.

I just pulled up my 270AI info with the 116 AH BC.180 G7 3425fps and its 2355@ 400 almost identical to the 85 .264 .................something aint right

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

Hey, if you would hit the animal with 300 Weatherby, 300 WinMag , the animal would be dead after that spine hit.

He didn't hit the spine though. So no it wouldn't have. Im assuming he hit what I call "no man's land" the area between the lungs and spine. Seen it happen before. If you hit them there then they're getting away unless you get a bullet that has some fragmentation getting into the vital area. Nobody really knows what happened without pictures. It appears to me he just used too light of a bullet for the job at hand. Speed is only part of the equation.

 

[ButterBean]

He didn't hit the spine though. So no it wouldn't have. Im assuming he hit what I call "no man's land" the area between the lungs and spine. Seen it happen before. If you hit them there then they're getting away unless you get a bullet that has some fragmentationgettinginto the vital area. Nobody really knows what happened without pictures. It appears to me he just used too light of a bullet for the job at hand. Speed is only part of the equation.

I agree, I'm just trying to figure it out