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Are we too critical of modern bullets?

MC and I are both adults and can have a conversation amongst ourselves. Neither of us needs you to interpret for us nor to play umpire.

Adults allow other adults to speak for themselves. They respect the clarification of another adult, rather than insisting they better know the intent and mind of the other adult.

It's not a conversation between MC and you when you Post on this Forum. You wanna have a conversation with MC, you can accomplish that thru Private Messaging. You wanna crow like a rooster, you do it by posting on a public Forum.

I didn't interpret. I copied and pasted quotes. Your own posts demonstrated that you misrepresented MC's statements, and then insisted up to 5 separate times that he justify/support something he never, ever claimed. Twice after he politely informed that your interpretation was incorrect.

That's not umpiring. It's correction.
 
Adults allow other adults to speak for themselves. They respect the clarification of another adult, rather than insisting they better know the intent and mind of the other adult.

It's not a conversation between MC and you when you Post on this Forum. You wanna have a conversation with MC, you can accomplish that thru Private Messaging. You wanna crow like a rooster, you do it by posting on a public Forum.

I didn't interpret. I copied and pasted quotes. Your own posts demonstrated that you misrepresented MC's statements, and then insisted up to 5 separate times that he justify/support something he never, ever claimed. Twice after he politely informed that your interpretation was incorrect.

That's not umpiring. It's correction.
There was no misrepresentation.

He also came back and answered my questions which is all I asked.

The conversation was between he and I till you decided to butt in.

Let us each speak for ourselves, We don't need you to do it for us.
 
It was worse than misrepresentation. It was a fabrication you're still publicly holding on to. Could you possibly believe that MC would make a blanket, broad, all encompassing claim that bullet manufacturers don't test their products? And then proceed to tell him that he made such a proclamation? Ludicrous.

I have no doubt MC can represent himself here without anyone's assistance. He's smart. He's a PhD. People hire him to perform research they don't know how to complete on their own. I've read some of his reports. For your information, he's demonstrated that you're not the only one "pretty adept at the language". Enough so that he doesn't need to be told what he expressed or meant - let alone be challenged to prove claims never made.

If you intend to maintain a two way, private, or privileged communication with solely one other member, there are e-mailing and private messaging options. You can pretend your Posts were a one-on-one communication, after-the-fact, if you want. But that's no more credible than your pretending "there was no misrepresentation". Too late. Your misrepresentation was stated publicly.

For illustration purposes, I'm going to copy and largely paste your justifications for challenging MC, and adopt those justifications for my challenging you. Here we go:
When someone (WR) makes a categorical statement of fact it's up to them (WR) to support such a statement.

I merely asked you to do so, I didn't argue you were wrong, I simply asked for some supporting evidence of your claims. I think you're a good guy and have provided a lot of good information here as well, but I am well within my rights to try and clarify which are facts and which are assumptions and opinions. There is no insult in my attempting to do so.


Sound familiar? If not re-read your prior statement within Post #49 of this Thread. There's one HUGE difference. MC never made the statement you gave him credit for.

So unless you're intent on restricting criticism of bullets or bullet manufacturers, (which may or may not have been your intent - notice I didn't tell you what your mindset or intention was), it seems fairest to let other members speak and express themselves. I doubt they need your help expressing themselves, any more than you need or desire mine.
 
It was worse than misrepresentation. It was a fabrication you're still publicly holding on to. Could you possibly believe that MC would make a blanket, broad, all encompassing claim that bullet manufacturers don't test their products? And then proceed to tell him that he made such a proclamation? Ludicrous.

I have no doubt MC can represent himself here without anyone's assistance. He's smart. He's a PhD. People hire him to perform research they don't know how to complete on their own. I've read some of his reports. For your information, he's demonstrated that you're not the only one "pretty adept at the language". Enough so that he doesn't need to be told what he expressed or meant - let alone be challenged to prove claims never made.

If you intend to maintain a two way, private, or privileged communication with solely one other member, there are e-mailing and private messaging options. You can pretend your Posts were a one-on-one communication, after-the-fact, if you want. But that's no more credible than your pretending "there was no misrepresentation". Too late. Your misrepresentation was stated publicly.

For illustration purposes, I'm going to copy and largely paste your justifications for challenging MC, and adopt those justifications for my challenging you. Here we go:
When someone (WR) makes a categorical statement of fact it's up to them (WR) to support such a statement.

I merely asked you to do so, I didn't argue you were wrong, I simply asked for some supporting evidence of your claims. I think you're a good guy and have provided a lot of good information here as well, but I am well within my rights to try and clarify which are facts and which are assumptions and opinions. There is no insult in my attempting to do so.


Sound familiar? If not re-read your prior statement within Post #49 of this Thread. There's one HUGE difference. MC never made the statement you gave him credit for.

So unless you're intent on restricting criticism of bullets or bullet manufacturers, (which may or may not have been your intent - notice I didn't tell you what your mindset or intention was), it seems fairest to let other members speak and express themselves. I doubt they need your help expressing themselves, any more than you need or desire mine.
Go bother someone else. I'm done with you. This thread is about bullets not members.
 
Actually what changes things the most is what sells the most and what percentage market share a given mfg or product line is holding.

As long as we keep buying a given bullet in a volume which makes it profitable for the mgf, they will keep making them. When we cease to, that is when it sends a message to them.

Other than that and direct consumer feed back to the mfg's customer service people we as individuals have very little effect on what they produce.

As for BC's, BC's are not static. They vary with velocity so even when the mfg's do test them you are never going to get a BC that is completely accurate at all ranges unless you are shooting the same load, same velocity, same conditions as was done during testing.

That's right if people are not happy with something they don't BUY it do they .
If they then tell the company why , it all helps to effect change .
The BC stuff is Not relevant to what I said .
So you are saying that nothing we do can change the firearms industries products . What a load of rubbish , Some of the products you use to day.
I INVENTED.
When ever you enter a thread it goes down hill quickly .
 
That's right if people are not happy with something they don't BUY it do they .
If they then tell the company why , it all helps to effect change .
The BC stuff is Not relevant to what I said .
So you are saying that nothing we do can change the firearms industries products . What a load of rubbish , Some of the products you use to day.
I INVENTED.
When ever you enter a thread it goes down hill quickly .
No, that's not what I said, try reading it again.

As long as we keep buying a given bullet in a volume which makes it profitable for the mgf, they will keep making them. When we cease to, that is when it sends a message to them.

Other than that and direct consumer feed back to the mfg's customer service people we as individuals have very little effect on what they produce.
What exactly do you think direct consumer feedback to their customer service rep's means?
 
BLAH BLAH BLAH !
Oh shut up !

That right there my freinds is Tact. Me thinks someone peed in your coffee cups a few days ago..... the three of you ought to get Len to start a three stooges forum where go nowhere conversations like this can be flushed to. I'm cancelling my subscription to this thread.
 
I was only talking to one member and the conversation was fine before he came in and ruined it. I apologise to everyone else but I am sick of this stalker Wildrose .
 
Harvested a buck today wih my newly built lightweight whitetail rig. It is a Rem 700 trued and worked with a highly-modified factory Remington 26" 7mm RemMag sporter barrel that has been trued, crowned, hand-lapped, and rechambered with a tight chamber remaer, as well.

I was shooting the Berger 168 VLD Hunting, backed by IMR 7828 SSC, Nosler brass, and Federal 215M primers.

The Berger bullet performed FLAWLESSLY, without exception. Granted the buck was only about 125 yards away. It left a small entrance, a 2" "bore-hole" type exit, and right through the pumphouse.

I forgot to take picks, but I have found my new whitetail load.

Just wanted to let yall know that the VLD's worked great for me.
 
Good job. Well done

Were you able to retrieve the bullet?

Unfortunately no, he was very close (+/- 125 yards), so it was a clean in and out.

I got to the stand right at 6am, I was unloading all the crap out of my pockets (shooting house, box stand, whatever you want to call it) and settling in for a long morning of hunting... @ 6:10 the sun is up enough for me to see. I glanced over and saw him, then my brain caught up with my eyes LOL (early morning, & 3 hours of sleep), and I stopped setting up and eased my rifle into position. He wasn't paying me no attention...He must have been "hawngry", cause he just kept eating and never looked up. I waited for the best shot, then he got really close to the pine thicket (woodline) and would have been gone. So I let the new whitetail slayer breathe fire at about 6:15am. Talk about your all-time short hunts! LOL I like those kind! :D

He wasn't nothing to brag about, but it's meat in the freezer, right?
 
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