AR 15 pistol 300 BO no good

[Tex_Hunter]

It's been said a few times but bears repeating... you cant pick the wrong ammo and then blame the gun/caliber. As is often the case with a lot of AR calibers (6.8 and 6.5 are just a susceptible to this) ammo manufacturer more than likely just stuck a 150gr 308/30-06 bullet in a blackout case and changed the name to something new. With 150gr factory ammo out of a 12" barrel I'd bet you impact velocity was in the 1200-1500fps range (if not slower) which means it really isnt going to perform well. Did the recovered slug even expand? (you said no exit wound so I assume you found the bullet).

The same goes for 6.8 ammo that was loaded with bullets designed for a 270win, or 6.5g loaded with heavier bullets designed for a full size chambering (less so since most 6.5 bullets open up down to pretty slow velocities).

If you are going to hunt with a blackout get bullets designed to run in the gun... full stop.

Just the fact that you mention yourself as "only ever hunted with factory rifles/ammo" kind of guy is kind of the first sign. You built something new and didnt do your homework. Go get some ammo running the Barnes 110 Tac-TX, Nosler 125BT, or Hornady V-Max or Sub-X, something designed to work in a short barreled 300blackout.

 

[troupe]

Engel ammo has been used by the SF community for a good reason. They make some great Sub 308 ammo also.

 

[Cowboyshooter]

Obviously I chose the wrong ammunition. But with a true length of 11" I guess it just doesn't have the velocity. People have talked about need to shoot in the head if you want to drop it. This is not a stand gun this was built for the purpose of still hunting and making drives in the swamp. So standing deer are very rare. I just can't put my faith in a round that can't leave a blood trail on a good shot at 40-50 yards regardless of the bullet used. I realize I chose the wrong bullet but even with the right bullet and a marginal shot would you find the deer? Not willing to take the chance. I am going with the 6.5 Grendel in a little longer barrel. Might not be quite as handy as the 12 inch but if it kills better than she will deal with it. For the guys that use the 300 bo and it works for you great.

It killed just fine, didn't it! However you will likely have the same problem with the Grendel, which will also kill just fine. Hunting is all about bullet selection, especially when using a pistol. Rifles often cover up poor choices in bullets, placement, etc... owing to the higher velocity and greater energy involved.
If a person wants/expects a blood trail, the only way to guarantee one is the bullet existing the far side! This often means giving up some expansion in order to get full penetration!
Something people tend to forget is without full penetration through the animal, the skin can and will shift, covering the entry hole, giving little to no blood trail. This is what you experienced. Trading out cartridges without looking at this will yield the same results again.
So do yourself a favor and spend more time looking at terminal ballistic of the particular bullet you intend to use, If you do not feel comfortable making shots which will immediately drop the critter, then you want an exit wound to give a better blood trail to track. This means using a bullet which has a high probability of complete penetration of the intended animal. Otherwise you will just have a repeat of the previous situation. Also some improvement in tracking skills is always helpful.
Before you think I am just criticizing, please understand my comments come from decades of experience and several mistakes when I was much younger!
So remember it is much less about the round you are using and mostly about the bullet one uses. People whom are poor trackers need to be better shots or not take the shot. Deer can be tracked without a blood trail, it just takes more skill and work.

 

[Nuclear Worker]

I agree, the 6.5 Grendel would be great, but not for subsonic use. You'll be going down the same path, just from different ends of the road.

That's why I said if you want to do subsonic stuff with a suppressor, hang onto that .300 BLK and build you 6.5 Grendel for the wife to hunt with. I wouldn't use subsonic loads in it. I'd use 120-130 grain hunting loads.

No interest in sub sonic for the 6.5 either I said it wrong or you miss read. I was going to use the 300 for sub sonic if I kept it. If he will take the barrel back was going to build 2 Grendel guns

 

[Nuclear Worker]

It killed just fine, didn't it! However you will likely have the same problem with the Grendel, which will also kill just fine. Hunting is all about bullet selection, especially when using a pistol. Rifles often cover up poor choices in bullets, placement, etc... owing to the higher velocity and greater energy involved.
If a person wants/expects a blood trail, the only way to guarantee one is the bullet existing the far side! This often means giving up some expansion in order to get full penetration!
Something people tend to forget is without full penetration through the animal, the skin can and will shift, covering the entry hole, giving little to no blood trail. This is what you experienced. Trading out cartridges without looking at this will yield the same results again.
So do yourself a favor and spend more time looking at terminal ballistic of the particular bullet you intend to use, If you do not feel comfortable making shots which will immediately drop the critter, then you want an exit wound to give a better blood trail to track. This means using a bullet which has a high probability of complete penetration of the intended animal. Otherwise you will just have a repeat of the previous situation. Also some improvement in tracking skills is always helpful.
Before you think I am just criticizing, please understand my comments come from decades of experience and several mistakes when I was much younger!
So remember it is much less about the round you are using and mostly about the bullet one uses. People whom are poor trackers need to be better shots or not take the shot. Deer can be tracked without a blood trail, it just takes more skill and work.

Your right I chose the wrong bullet and maybe have for many years with bigger caliber rifle that hid that problem. I just have a hard time understanding that at 40-50 yards you don't have a exit wound. Yes I did find the bullet I posted pics of it. I have tracked many animals in my 44 years of hunting and actually enjoyed it. That is not the issue! What I have a hard time swallowing is no exit wound at 40 yards. And maybe that is way more likely in these smaller caliber guns than I ever figured on. Exspecialy in that short of barrel with the lower velocity. I wish She would have shot it with the 110s but as I already said the 150 groups better so that is what she used. I thought the heavier bullet would be better and apparently I was wrong.

 

[Ckgworks]

Just kind of curious as to why you would even ask a manufacture to take the barrel back? Are you disappointed in the barrel? It seems to me that you are Disappointed in either the bullet YOU used, or the Cartridge YOU ordered the barrel in. In this day of people blasting manufactures for "poor" customer service manufactures will probably put a grin on their face and take it back to avoid someone spouting off about them on the internet. I myself can't treat someone who's trying to make a living that way, making them lose money to try make me happy...........Especially when their product is not at fault. Not trying to cause a fight, I'm just trying to understand this line of thinking, I have no problem using a warranty but I think this is a little different.

 

[Mike D Texas]

The wife shot 2 deer with her new 300 blackout pistol. Both deer were less than 50 yards standing. Heart shot on both. They ran like not even hit. Thank god we had some snow to track there was no hair no blood nothing. I thought she missed she said no way so I followed tracks and both deer were dead about 75 yards away. No exit wound top of heart blown off. Cavity full of blood. Not happy shooting 150 grain Winchester. Barrel is coming off and 6.5 Grendel is going on. Got talked out of it should have stayed with my original plan.

With the low velocities of the Blackout you are better off using caliber specific bullets; the 110 grain Barnes TAC-Tx (Black tips) have killed 50+ animals for me, most drop in their tracks using my 8" Noveske SBR.

Many bullets do not expand at the lower velocity of the Blackout. Choose your ammo wisely.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Just kind of curious as to why you would even ask a manufacture to take the barrel back? Are you disappointed in the barrel? It seems to me that you are Disappointed in either the bullet YOU used, or the Cartridge YOU ordered the barrel in. In this day of people blasting manufactures for "poor" customer service manufactures will probably put a grin on their face and take it back to avoid someone spouting off about them on the internet. I myself can't treat someone who's trying to make a living that way, making them lose money to try make me happy...........Especially when their product is not at fault. Not trying to cause a fight, I'm just trying to understand this line of thinking, I have no problem using a warranty but I think this is a little different.

I think it was the manufacturer that said he would give him a refund, or swap him for a new barrel, if he didn't like the cartridge choice, because he was on the fence about the 6.5 Grendel and .300 BLK at first, and they convinced him to go with the .300 BLK, instead of the Grendel.

I don't know this, but this is what I'm guessing happened based on what all the OP has said about the situation.

 

[Cowboyshooter]

Your right I chose the wrong bullet and maybe have for many years with bigger caliber rifle that hid that problem. I just have a hard time understanding that at 40-50 yards you don't have a exit wound. Yes I did find the bullet I posted pics of it. I have tracked many animals in my 44 years of hunting and actually enjoyed it. That is not the issue! What I have a hard time swallowing is no exit wound at 40 yards. And maybe that is way more likely in these smaller caliber guns than I ever figured on. Especially in that short of a barrel with the lower velocity. I wish She would have shot it with the 110s but as I already said the 150 groups better so that is what she used. I thought the heavier bullet would be better and apparently I was wrong.

It is easy to fall into the trap of "heavy" is going to penetrate. Seriously too many bullets do not work very well except in a somewhat narrow range of velocities.
When using a 150 grain it is only going to start at around 1900 fps out of an 18 inch barrel. Why that length is commonly used I have no idea. Out of an 11 barrel you are possibly going to be at 1500 fps or less. Either way you will be most likely be less than 1,000 foot pounds of energy. If you use an expanding bullet, the chance of getting all the way through is almost zero.
What I have found in mine is that the really heavy bullets. 208 to 240 grain, do not want to stop. They do not really expand, some barely show any sign of being fired beyond the rifling marks, these are all sub-sonic rounds out of a 16 barrel. Very little energy but lots of momentum! The real problem you are having is the length of barrel, 11 inches is not much for what you asking of it.
The other side of this issue is using something which will leave faster and is lighter to allow this, but it will come with a trade off, muzzle blast! Lots of it!!
An issue too often exaggerated is the absolute accuracy.
If one rounds prints a two inch group at 100 yards and the other prints 1 inch at 100 yards, often people jump on the smaller group as the better round. Sadly it may not be the best round for the job.
When I started pistol hunting for deer, I was using a .44 magnum in a Super Blackhawk. The factory ammo did a really poor job of penetration so I went well outside of the norm and used 265 grain bullets designed for the .444 Marlin round. They were plenty accurate, not as accurate as some of the 240 grain bullets and they did expand a bit, but I followed Elmer Keith's concept of limiting expansion and getting full penetration.
While this combo was little fun to shoot at 1470 fps, it always went all the way through and deer seldom moved from where they were hit. Granted I was using a much heavier bullet, higher velocity and more striking energy, than you had on tap, but as I was just starting to handgun hunt and did not want to injure or track very far.
Now I feel comfortable using a .357 pistol with 158 grain bullets driven around 1250 fps still faster than you were getting though. Using a semi-wad cutter hard cast bullet shot in the 40-50 yard range will often go all the way through.
By doing some work with wet newspaper, not sure where to find those any more, you can really learn what is likely going to work and what will likely let you down.
I would not give up on the .300, I certainly like mine, but some shooting into a cheap, wet media will really help you understand what works and what is going to disappoint you! Best of luck going forward, just remember it is a pistol not a rifle.

 

[Str8shooterTX]

Just a question, What are your 50 yard velocities and energy's with 150 grain bullets in the black out ?

J E CUSTOM

I went quickly through this as it got off topic a bunch but was this with full power loads or subsonics?

 

[CaptnC]

Well...the 150 bullet...that horse has been beat to death several times already. I personally have never even thought about building BO, but have shot several hundred round through my two most recent Grendel builds...I'm sure impressed with it out to 400 yards. I doubt I will shoot at a deer that far away but shooting steel is a blast.

The wife and I plan to put some booollets on some meat this weekend!

 

[Buttermilk]

My family has killed 5 whitetails with the 300 Blackout. It works fine with proper ammo. We have had success with the Nosler 125 BT and the Barnes 110 TAC-TX bullets. The Barnes 110 TAC-TX bullet is preferred over the Nosler 125 BT, based on the 5 deer killed.

Personally, I think the 300 BLK is a neat little round. It does have its limitations. Supersonic loads are best with 110-125 gr bullets and there are now at least three bullets suitable for subsonic loads that expand. There are also some non-expanding bullets (they don't expand at subsonic velocity) that work ok too.

Best round, in my opinion, to introduce kids to hunting. My oldest granddaughter, who was11 at the time, shot her first deer with the 300 Blackout.

 

[cohunt]

I went quickly through this as it got off topic a bunch but was this with full power loads or subsonics?

he said it was facotry winchester 150 grain ammo--- the only 300BO 150 grain ammo that Winchester makes is the deer season XP-- the bullet has a thin tapered jacket/ flat base "huge" ballistic tip" and it is made to fragment on impact and not necessarily penetrate as it is a cup/core bullet design with a massive plastic tip --I think it worked as it was designed to--- it fragmented rapidly and did plenty of damage to the lungs and heart, it just did not penetrate like he wanted it o--- I did not think that bullet design was made for deep penetration

look at the jacket construction next to a nosler accubond bullet

 

[Nuclear Worker]

Just kind of curious as to why you would even ask a manufacture to take the barrel back? Are you disappointed in the barrel? It seems to me that you are Disappointed in either the bullet YOU used, or the Cartridge YOU ordered the barrel in. In this day of people blasting manufactures for "poor" customer service manufactures will probably put a grin on their face and take it back to avoid someone spouting off about them on the internet. I myself can't treat someone who's trying to make a living that way, making them lose money to try make me happy...........Especially when their product is not at fault. Not trying to cause a fight, I'm just trying to understand this line of thinking, I have no problem using a warranty but I think this is a little different.

Originally I wanted a 6.5 build and he talked me out of it. Saying if I wasn't happy with the caliber he would take back and I could buy 6.5 barrel from him. I just can't swallow the fact that at the range the deer was shot I didn't have a exit wound regardless of the bullet. If a caliber is that finicky about the bullet used I don't want it. Call me stupid spoiled whatever.