Recommendation for Springfield Armory Saint Victor AR-15 pistol compliance

[Okanogan]

Here is some reference information for those following the issue and possibly considering going the form 1 route:
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/eformone-externalguidancewithqapdf/download
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/faqfinalrule2021r-08f-correctedpdf/download

The big surprise to me was that if you want to include the SBR/ braced pistol in your trust, you have to prove it was in the trust prior to the rule being published in the register. If you read far enough, the ATF seems to think proving this requires having it on the list and notarized. If you want to keep this option open, it would appear to be a very time sensitive issue.

 

[Okanogan]

Buy a 7 dollar foam pad for the buffer tube and shoot it like that until the Supreme Court steps in. My guess is this is like everything else the ATF comes up with and will be overturned. Hopefully I'm not wrong.

Having read at least part of the ATF rule, I think the ATF will disagree strongly with the suggestion. The rule is very broad so that anything sticking to the rear of the receiver that could be used against the shoulder is considered a stock. This includes components of the firearm as well as accessories. It appears they are indirectly saying that for AR type weapons that require a buffer tube to function, it is okay- subject of course to their potential to change their minds later. They specifically point out that AK type firearms don't require anything to function and just adding a folding stock adapter without the stock might be considered a SBR.

Taking the brace off and destroying it is their easiest option but I can't imagine the requirement to destroy the brace would survive the courts. The ATF specifically says they have no authority to regulate braces and they also say it is legal to transfer the brace to a rifle.

 

[tvarden]

So I have 6 ((2) AR15 300blk (2) AR15 223 (1) AR10 8.6 and (1) Christensen MPP 300blk) with pistol braces, so today I went to eForms and registered them all for free. I do not agree with NFA, but I do follow the law. Since I already had an SBR and 9 suppressors they already know who I am and have my info!! So no biggie.. So now I will have 6 AR lowers registered as SBRs, and 1 bolt action. So if you want to change to a non NFA lower, order a handful of lowers for $60 each and don't register them. You can swap them out in 20 min. and have a non NFA gun if for some reason you need it. Only one I'm stuck with is the bolt action, and I'm fine with it.

 

[FEENIX]

So I have 6 ((2) AR15 300blk (2) AR15 223 (1) AR10 8.6 and (1) Christensen MPP 300blk) with pistol braces, so today I went to eForms and registered them all for free. I do not agree with NFA, but I do follow the law. Since I already had an SBR and 9 suppressors they already know who I am and have my info!! So no biggie.. So now I will have 6 AR lowers registered as SBRs, and 1 bolt action. So if you want to change to a non NFA lower, order a handful of lowers for $60 each and don't register them. You can swap them out in 20 min. and have a non NFA gun if for some reason you need it. Only one I'm stuck with is the bolt action, and I'm fine with it.

I am ensuring I pass the correct information. Is it Form 1 (https://www.atf.gov/file/11281/download)? Thanks!

 

[cohunt]

I am ensuring I pass the correct information. Is it Form 1 (https://www.atf.gov/file/11281/download)? Thanks!

A form 1 is the manufacturer form-- so yes, it's a form 1 because you are manufacturing an sbr from either a rifle or pistol.
This is the same form you use for sbs, and/or suppressor.

If you are going to do this- do it quick--- I'm sure it will get bogged down and take months or even up to over a year to get the stamp back once it gets swamped with submissions.

While you wait for the tax stamp to be approved-- you'll need to take the brace off and leave it in pistol form while you wait. That's how guys normally do a form 1 sbr-- is build a pistol, wait for stamp, then install buttstock once approved.


Do you actually have to submit pics of the firearm? This has not been a requirement in the past

If you have wanted an sbr in the past but the tax stamp fee has deterred you-- this would be a good way to get one for free -- even of you don't jave an arm brace-- buy a cheep one real quick for the pics ( or borrow one from a buddy) and submit a form 1.

Just remember it will now be an nfa/sbr item and be governed by all the nfa rules/transfer fees/etc from now on, so do your homework.

Technically in some stats- because I have a conceiled carry permit- I can put my pistol in a backpack/saddlebag/etc and carry it anywhere its legal to do so like any other pistol-- not sure if "rifles/sbr's" fall under the cc permit in all states--- but also, pistols can be carried loaded in/on a vehicle (in my state) - but rifles/sbr's can not.

Just remember to read all the rules before you submit for an sbr--- sbr's carry quite a bit more restrictions than pistols in most states.

 

[Okanogan]

While you wait for the tax stamp to be approved-- you'll need to take the brace off and leave it in pistol form while you wait. That's how guys normally do a form 1 sbr-- is build a pistol, wait for stamp, then install buttstock once approved.


Do you actually have to submit pics of the firearm? This has not been a requirement in the past

From what I read in the ATF info, if you properly submitted your form 1 for a braced pistol during the 120 day grace period, you are good to go while waiting for your tax stamp to appear.

I haven't submitted a form 1 yet under the exemption program but I didn't notice anything in the guidance document that I linked above that indicated a need to include a picture of the firearm. I had heard the picture issue prior to the rule's release but I think the new rule is so broad that it may be a mute point. The rumored picture requirement was supposedly to keep people from requesting "free tax stamps" for non-braced weapons. ATF's insistence on the date a weapon enters a trust list may be for a similar reason.

 

[tvarden]

It does ask for a close up picture of the serial number engraving on the receiver. And your just waiting on an approval on the form 1 not a stamp. You don't buy a stamp on this. If you go to the EForms site it tells you at the top that if you are doing the pistol brace ruling click here and it takes you to a dedicated site just for this purpose.

 

[cohunt]

It does ask for a close up picture of the serial number engraving on the receiver. And your just waiting on an approval on the form 1 not a stamp. You don't buy a stamp on this. If you go to the EForms site it tells you at the top that if you are doing the pistol brace ruling click here and it takes you to a dedicated site just for this purpose.

If you dont get a stamp-- how do you prove its a legal nfa sbr? How can you later sell it without a stamp?

So you just get an approved form 1 with no "tax stamp" picture on the upper right of the form?

 

[tvarden]

I was told I would get an approved form 1 saying it was now an approved SBR with no tax stamp. However who knows?? It's the ATF I might get some with stamps, some without, or nothing at all!! Lol don't think we/they actually know until it gets returned to us. I summited them on Sunday, printed my paperwork and did my fingerprints yesterday, will mail it all in today and wait!! The FAQ said ttey are trying for 90 days, however could be longer depending on volume. Last Form 1 I did 2 years ago and paid the 200 for took 38 days..

 

[tknuts103]

Having read at least part of the ATF rule, I think the ATF will disagree strongly with the suggestion. The rule is very broad so that anything sticking to the rear of the receiver that could be used against the shoulder is considered a stock. This includes components of the firearm as well as accessories. It appears they are indirectly saying that for AR type weapons that require a buffer tube to function, it is okay- subject of course to their potential to change their minds later. They specifically point out that AK type firearms don't require anything to function and just adding a folding stock adapter without the stock might be considered a SBR.

Taking the brace off and destroying it is their easiest option but I can't imagine the requirement to destroy the brace would survive the courts. The ATF specifically says they have no authority to regulate braces and they also say it is legal to transfer the brace to a rifle.

I just watched a complete breakdown of the rules and just having the buffer tube is 100 percent legal. Skip the foam if you are worried about it being in the gray zone. Just run the buffer tube and you will be fine

 

[tknuts103]

Having read at least part of the ATF rule, I think the ATF will disagree strongly with the suggestion. The rule is very broad so that anything sticking to the rear of the receiver that could be used against the shoulder is considered a stock. This includes components of the firearm as well as accessories. It appears they are indirectly saying that for AR type weapons that require a buffer tube to function, it is okay- subject of course to their potential to change their minds later. They specifically point out that AK type firearms don't require anything to function and just adding a folding stock adapter without the stock might be considered a SBR.

Taking the brace off and destroying it is their easiest option but I can't imagine the requirement to destroy the brace would survive the courts. The ATF specifically says they have no authority to regulate braces and they also say it is legal to transfer the brace to a rifle.

This is the best breakdown I have found

 

[FEENIX]

I was told I would get an approved form 1 saying it was now an approved SBR with no tax stamp. However who knows?? It's the ATF I might get some with stamps, some without, or nothing at all!! Lol don't think we/they actually know until it gets returned to us. I summited them on Sunday, printed my paperwork and did my fingerprints yesterday, will mail it all in today and wait!! The FAQ said ttey are trying for 90 days, however could be longer depending on volume. Last Form 1 I did 2 years ago and paid the 200 for took 38 days..

I am checking if you have any updates to pass on to my friend. TIA.

Ed

 

[Okanogan]

I went ahead and filed an eform 1 once the rule was published on 31 Jan, which started the 120 clock to take action. The process was inline with earlier comments in the thread. I'm expecting a protracted wait.
I did read an article put out by the NRA which cast doubt on the need to destroy the brace if it was removed and if you had other non-NFA rifles that could legally use the brace in place of a stock. They noted that prior case history suggested that the ATFs constructive cliams wouldn't stand up if the brace owner had other legal uses for it.

 

[Tidus56]

So I have 6 ((2) AR15 300blk (2) AR15 223 (1) AR10 8.6 and (1) Christensen MPP 300blk) with pistol braces, so today I went to eForms and registered them all for free. I do not agree with NFA, but I do follow the law. Since I already had an SBR and 9 suppressors they already know who I am and have my info!! So no biggie.. So now I will have 6 AR lowers registered as SBRs, and 1 bolt action. So if you want to change to a non NFA lower, order a handful of lowers for $60 each and don't register them. You can swap them out in 20 min. and have a non NFA gun if for some reason you need it. Only one I'm stuck with is the bolt action, and I'm fine with it.

I have thought similarly, to you on this as I have a couple suppressors. My only fear is I tax stamp these suckers just to have the rule be overturned. I am fairly certain it won't stand up. I keep going back and forth on this and may just get rid of these for the time being. I sure love my scorpion though it's my favorite firearm.