A-tips on game?

[elkaholic]

I hope to get out on Sunday to try some low(ish) velocity impacts with the bullets you sent. I'll try a couple in the 8" twist 6.5 Grendel to start. If I can get a muzzle velocity around 2300 from the 19" barrel, I should end up around 2100fps at 100 yards and still have an SG of 1.5 or higher. If I have a couple left I'll load some up in the 6.5 Badger to simulate 26 Nosler at short range.

Like B23 said, I'm not doing anything super scientific but it's an easy way to test them. I've done a fair number of other bullets as well using the same testing procedures and it's all documented in another thread. I thought about changing my testing to include ballistic gel, but then it wouldn't give a fair comparison between the old tests and the new ones.
https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/bullet-expansion-test-results.183285/
You'll have to click on the links for the pictures on photobucket but they're all still there. I'm too cheap to pay the $400 to upgrade the photobucket account!

I will be eager to see your results, thanks!!

 

[yorke-1]

Here are the not so scientific results of my test with the 135gr A-Tips. Bullets were shot into a bin filled with the same apron leather as before but with cardboard layered in every 2" as well. I filled the bin with water and let it soak for 2 days before my testing. I started shooting at the top of the in and worked my way down trying to keep up with the water level as it drained out of the bin through the bullet holes. I also shot one each of the 140gr A-Max and 143 ELDx to see if the results this time would match the results I saw the last time I did the testing.

6.5 Grendel
- 135gr Hornady A-tip
- Muzzle velocity 2170 fps

Impact velocity was roughly 1900 fps. Retained weights on the two recovered bullets were 134.8gr and 124.0gr including the recovered tips. One bullet lost the tip after about 5" of penetration and the the jacket and core separated a few inches deeper in. The second bullet penetrated roughly 15" before losing the tip and I found the rest of the bullet at roughly 16". For comparison, the only bullets which came close to depth of penetration were some of the 338s which tumbled and penetrated backwards with no expansion. Even those didn't go this deep.

For the sake of consistency, I tried to test the 135 A-Tip under the same conditions that I tested the other 6.5 bullets a while back when I was doing the testing. This time I shot all the bullets at a slightly higher muzzle velocity to help with stability, but set up the bullet trap at 250 yards to still give an impact velocity similar to what I had before.

The results I saw today with the 140gr A-Max and 143 ELDx mirror what I saw before when shooting those bullets at the same material with similar impact velocities. The 140 A-Max retained 131.8gr total, but the jacket and core separated. The 143 ELDx retained 125.1gr and was very similar to the last test I did with them when the same bullet retained 135.4gr and 119gr with similar impact velocities.

Two bullets doesn't make a valid test, but right now it looks like the A-tips really won't expand predictably. I have two left of the 5 that B23 was nice enough to send me so I'm trying to decide whether to duplicate my test with the same velocity or try these two at a slightly higher impact velocity.

I'll add today's results to my old bullet testing thread too just in case anyone want's to go back and compare these to some of the past results.

 

[codyadams]

Very interesting, thank you yorke. My bets is in ballistics gel like what Barbour creek is using to test, it would act like a FMJ for the most part. That is unfortunate if that is the case, I would bet a lot of people are going to try them on game anyway.

 

[MAF47]

YORKE, even though not so scientific your test is very interesting. It shows the different behaviors of these ogives and confirms the one of the A-TIPs with their thicker jacket. Now we'll check the results with those guys wanting to try them on game, as CODYADAMS says.

 

[can1010]

if your interested in testing the 153s in the Grendel at low velocity and your badger for high velocity send me a pm. will be glad to send some.
my attempt to recover some looked a lot like the a-max and the first 135 but there is a lot of lead in the backstop and cant be 100% it is the right ones.
using my 6.5 prc with 3011 muzzle velocity

 

[NEMTHunter]

I am not that surprised with the results, After seeing the cutaway of one. They are built in a way that makes me feel they will just run right through. Some might not. That bent bullet tells me they will also bend and make a clean open wound.

Just one test. But it still shows what it could do on game.

 

[B23]

Yorke and I both thought the results of these 135gr A-Tip was very similar to how the Lapua .338 300gr Scenar bullets perform.

Maybe it's just me, but I was rather surprised at how the aluminium tip appeared to not be even the slightest bit deformed. Other than being slightly bent, the tip looks pristine.

I'm not a bulletsmith, nor do I claim to be, but do y'all think the reason these things don't want to expand is because there is no void behind the tip? I understand the jacket appears to be a little thicker but I tend to think because there is no void behind that tip, and the lead core supports the jacket all the way up to the tip, it makes it difficult for any kind of uniform expansion to start as the bullet impacts. Thoughts???

 

[NEMTHunter]

Yorke and I both thought the results of these 135gr A-Tip was very similar to how the Lapua .338 300gr Scenar bullets perform.

Maybe it's just me, but I was rather surprised at how the aluminium tip appeared to not be even the slightest bit deformed. Other than being slightly bent, the tip looks pristine.

I'm not a bulletsmith, nor do I claim to be, but do y'all think the reason these things don't want to expand is because there is no void behind the tip? I understand the jacket appears to be a little thicker but I tend to think because there is no void behind that tip, and the lead core supports the jacket all the way up to the tip, it makes it difficult for any kind of uniform expansion to start as the bullet impacts. Thoughts???

That would be my guess as well. I am sure the lack of a cavity is hindering expansion, The thing with the tips like this is it will have to bend the end of the bullet to come out (They will not break like a plastic tip will) and that will cause the bullet to not open right. And a good chance it will not even travel in a straight line through the game.

I feel this is one target bullet that's better left to target shooting. I do wonder how it would respond to hitting bone? Somebody should shoot it into ballistic gell.

 

[yorke-1]

I feel this is one target bullet that's better left to target shooting. I do wonder how it would respond to hitting bone? Somebody should shoot it into ballistic gell.

I've been thinking about making some gel blocks to add to my tests. I was thinking a layer or two of the leather with a gel block sandwiched in between. Plus I have a whole garbage can full of deer/elk bones I could mix in there too.

 

[B23]

It would be interesting to see if they go straight or if they tumble, when shot into ballistic gelatin blocks. Maybe a little of both.

 

[floyd kittrell]

Yorke and I both thought the results of these 135gr A-Tip was very similar to how the Lapua .338 300gr Scenar bullets perform.

Maybe it's just me, but I was rather surprised at how the aluminium tip appeared to not be even the slightest bit deformed. Other than being slightly bent, the tip looks pristine.

I'm not a bulletsmith, nor do I claim to be, but do y'all think the reason these things don't want to expand is because there is no void behind the tip? I understand the jacket appears to be a little thicker but I tend to think because there is no void behind that tip, and the lead core supports the jacket all the way up to the tip, it makes it difficult for any kind of uniform expansion to start as the bullet impacts. Thoughts???

Yes Sir , I would think the absence of the hollow channel is the greatest culprit but could also have other variables in lead and copper hardness

 

[dennisinaz]

When you shoot a bullet at high velocity it attains a certain centrifugal velocity. As the bullet slows down, the rotational velocity doesn't slow down near as much as the linear velocity. A fast spinning bullet is much more stable than an slow spinning bullet.

As an example: a bullet fired at 3000 fps muzzle velocity in a 1:8" twist barrel with have a rotational velocity of roughly 270,000 RPM. When it slows to 2000 fps the rotational velocity is still quite high- probably around 240,000-250,000 RPM.

The same bullet fired at 2000 fps to approximate a long range velocity will only attain 180,000 fps.

The resulting tests are hindered by the less stable bullet and the results are probably not typical of what the real long range shot would be like.

You can certainly extrapolate to some degree but to say that the bullet will tumble etc is not a fair test.

Ideally, you need to shoot the media at distance.

 

[Calvin45]

Based on what testing? They are just hitting the market now, have maybe been in the general public's hands for 3 weeks? There is a potential someone used them on a spring bear hunt, but i doubt there has been enough data collected to say they work really well.

I suspect as someone else has said that he means tipped match bullets in general work well, opening more violently at lower impact velocity, flying more accurately, arriving with a lot more energy at range when the bc is so much higher. The a tip could be the ultimate tipped match bullet, especially the 30 cal options for those with the twist rates to stabilize them. Highest bc bullets bar none, a very large tip meaning a very large hp.

 

[floyd kittrell]

I would never hunt with this bullet !!