A-tips on game?

[can1010]

I have shot a lot of deer for crop damage. most in the head and one thing that was common is that one or both eyes will bulge out
I shot the 153s into one gallon milk jugs from 100 to 400 yds and only 2 out of 20 even exploded the first jug most were straight through. maybe the 135s will be better but I don't have confidence in them to be reliable
let us know what you find if you can locate the skull

 

[palerider3]

Shot a cow elk this weekend at 760 with the 135 Atip. Went through both shoulders and left a 1 1/2" or so exit. Didn't think about taking pics of the wound channel until I was taking quarters off. But here is the hole in the offside shoulder and the chest coming through into the shoulder.
Edit, can't get the pics to load. Giving me an error saying the file has the wrong extension.

 

[bigbulls]

PM sent

 

[B23]

Shot a cow elk this weekend at 760 with the 135 Atip. Went through both shoulders and left a 1 1/2" or so exit. Didn't think about taking pics of the wound channel until I was taking quarters off. But here is the hole in the offside shoulder and the chest coming through into the shoulder.
Edit, can't get the pics to load. Giving me an error saying the file has the wrong extension.

Are you happy enough with the results that you will continue to use these on game?

Did she go far before piling up and falling over dead and if you don't mind, what were you shooting these in?

 

[palerider3]

Are you happy enough with the results that you will continue to use these on game?

Did she go far before piling up and falling over dead and if you don't mind, what were you shooting these in?

Yes, I'm pretty happy with the results so far. Penetration was better than expected actually, and expansion has been fine for me as well. This bullet impacted at around 1900 FPS. Cow fell in her tracks, kicked a few times, and then slid down the mountain 30 or so yards. I can't say it performed better than other bullets I've tried though. My experience with the 143 EDLX has been pretty good as well. I really want to see how my 230gr load performs on them, but I have been carrying my lighter weight setup every time I've had a shot. I emailed the pics to another member and hopefully he can load them on here.

 

[palerider3]

Here are some pics of the exit side shoulder and chest exiting into the shoulder.

 

[codyadams]

Here are some pics of the exit side shoulder and chest exiting into the shoulder.

Hard to tell in the pic, but looks like a high hit, spine or bottom of spine. Not discrediting your experience at all, like I said it's hard to tell from those pics on my phone, but I have found that shots placed through the shoulder at the base of the spine tend to render "bang flop" results reguardless of bullet performance and also do a little more damage than is typically seen when the bullet is placed through the ribs, as the bone can create secondary projectiles or cause bullet tumbling to create the concept of bullet expansion, when that may not have necessarily been the case.

At the end of the day, you dumped an elk in it's tracks. I would keep using the bullet until you see something you didn't like. If your in an advantageous position I would try a shot that is going to hit no, or minimal bone to really see how the bullet does. A shot placed through the heart or lungs but only through the thin rib meat will show if a bullet is really going to perform when it hits limited material.

 

[palerider3]

Bullet went just under the spine on this one. I'll take more pics if there's anything else to see when I start cutting it up. I still have a doe tag and a cow tag to fill this year so I'm hoping to get a few more examples. Hoping to get one with the 30 Cal bullet as well.

 

[Pinkes]

Not yet, but now that archery season is over I'll I'll be elk and deer hunting with 230s out of my 300wm next weekend. 230 ATips at 2915 FPS.

Looking at the same bullet for my new 300wm barrel. whats the ideal freebore for the 230gr ATIPs?

 

[flyguy1]

The Gunwerks guy ruined both front quarters on that antelope it looked like though; not a bullet problem I realize. I just don't get why he was so happy about ruining meat.

 

[josip89]

.

 

[codyadams]

Went out with a buddy of mine and his wife a couple weeks ago for pronghorn doe/fawn opener. 153 A-Tip out of a 6.5 PRC, running around 2940? If I recall correctly. Range was 580 yards, and we're at around 7000 ft elevation, so 2375-2425 fps retained velocity. Shot was on a large fawn pronghorn.

At the shot, the fawn didn't react, I actually thought it was a miss at first, she ran about 100 yards and started slowing down, and started to limp, and was apparent she had been hit. We had the shooter prepare for another shot, but the fawn layed down in the alfalfa. She got up, and layed back down several times, never giving enough time for a second shot. She would lay her head down, pick it up, lay it back down again, and so on. The shooter took a couple shots for the head, but was just barely off the mark, also didnt help that she was only using a 3-9x SWFA.

So, we started walking towards her to get closer and put a finishing shot. At around 400 yards, she got up again, then layed down before we could put another round in her. We kept closing distance until we were around 75 yards, they were able to put a round through the base of the skull to finish her off and not waste any meat. The entire ordeal from first shot to last was 10, maybe 15 minutes or so.

Upon walking up to her, we were not sure what to expect. However, shot placement was perfect, just above heart level, right behind the elbow perfectly in the pocket, exit was about 1.5 - 2" behind as she was very slightly quartering to, excellent double lung hit. When we opened her up, there was zero expansion, none. 6.5 cal entrance and exit. There was nothing other than rib and lungs hit, however when she was layed on her side, the penetration path was 7-8", maybe more, plenty of distance for expansion to initiate. The lungs looked nearly untouched, with maybe a 1" diameter bruise around the bullet pin hole path.

This is only an example of one, and it was on light game, however it was still a failure. I will also say that there was two other pronghorn taken with this same set up, on one neck bone was hit on a full sized doe, and another was hit a little far back through the back of both lungs but also the front of the paunch, and both were devastating.

Personally, for testing bullets, I put more weight in hits that don't contact much bone, or even stomach, stomach contents tend to be denser than lungs and help initiate expansion, and hitting bone can be decieving, as much of the damage done is likely not even from the bullet but the secondary projectiles. I have shot coyotes with FMJ 223 ammo that left incredible wounds, because I hit the shoulder. Actually, broadside behind the shoulder through both lungs is likely the lightest media in a game animal to pass a bullet through. Thin ribs, meat behind the shoulder, and lungs do not offer much resistance for a bullet to expand in when compared with shoulder meat, bone, liver, stomach contents, and so on.

Member PNWGator has detailed photos, if he sees this thread hopefully he posts some up.

 

[floyd kittrell]

Went out with a buddy of mine and his wife a couple weeks ago for pronghorn doe/fawn opener. 153 A-Tip out of a 6.5 PRC, running around 2940? If I recall correctly. Range was 580 yards, and we're at around 7000 ft elevation, so 2375-2425 fps retained velocity. Shot was on a large fawn pronghorn.

At the shot, the fawn didn't react, I actually thought it was a miss at first, she ran about 100 yards and started slowing down, and started to limp, and was apparent she had been hit. We had the shooter prepare for another shot, but the fawn layed down in the alfalfa. She got up, and layed back down several times, never giving enough time for a second shot. She would lay her head down, pick it up, lay it back down again, and so on. The shooter took a couple shots for the head, but was just barely off the mark, also didnt help that she was only using a 3-9x SWFA.

So, we started walking towards her to get closer and put a finishing shot. At around 400 yards, she got up again, then layed down before we could put another round in her. We kept closing distance until we were around 75 yards, they were able to put a round through the base of the skull to finish her off and not waste any meat. The entire ordeal from first shot to last was 10, maybe 15 minutes or so.

Upon walking up to her, we were not sure what to expect. However, shot placement was perfect, just above heart level, right behind the elbow perfectly in the pocket, exit was about 1.5 - 2" behind as she was very slightly quartering to, excellent double lung hit. When we opened her up, there was zero expansion, none. 6.5 cal entrance and exit. There was nothing other than rib and lungs hit, however when she was layed on her side, the penetration path was 7-8", maybe more, plenty of distance for expansion to initiate. The lungs looked nearly untouched, with maybe a 1" diameter bruise around the bullet pin hole path.

This is only an example of one, and it was on light game, however it was still a failure. I will also say that there was two other pronghorn taken with this same set up, on one neck bone was hit on a full sized doe, and another was hit a little far back through the back of both lungs but also the front of the paunch, and both were devastating.

Personally, for testing bullets, I put more weight in hits that don't contact much bone, or even stomach, stomach contents tend to be denser than lungs and help initiate expansion, and hitting bone can be decieving, as much of the damage done is likely not even from the bullet but the secondary projectiles. I have shot coyotes with FMJ 223 ammo that left incredible wounds, because I hit the shoulder. Actually, broadside behind the shoulder through both lungs is likely the lightest media in a game animal to pass a bullet through. Thin ribs, meat behind the shoulder, and lungs do not offer much resistance for a bullet to expand in when compared with shoulder meat, bone, liver, stomach contents, and so on.

Member PNWGator has detailed photos, if he sees this thread hopefully he posts some up.

Agree Sir , thanks for the data , this was exactly what my response was about.

 

[elkaholic]

Went out with a buddy of mine and his wife a couple weeks ago for pronghorn doe/fawn opener. 153 A-Tip out of a 6.5 PRC, running around 2940? If I recall correctly. Range was 580 yards, and we're at around 7000 ft elevation, so 2375-2425 fps retained velocity. Shot was on a large fawn pronghorn.

At the shot, the fawn didn't react, I actually thought it was a miss at first, she ran about 100 yards and started slowing down, and started to limp, and was apparent she had been hit. We had the shooter prepare for another shot, but the fawn layed down in the alfalfa. She got up, and layed back down several times, never giving enough time for a second shot. She would lay her head down, pick it up, lay it back down again, and so on. The shooter took a couple shots for the head, but was just barely off the mark, also didnt help that she was only using a 3-9x SWFA.

So, we started walking towards her to get closer and put a finishing shot. At around 400 yards, she got up again, then layed down before we could put another round in her. We kept closing distance until we were around 75 yards, they were able to put a round through the base of the skull to finish her off and not waste any meat. The entire ordeal from first shot to last was 10, maybe 15 minutes or so.

Upon walking up to her, we were not sure what to expect. However, shot placement was perfect, just above heart level, right behind the elbow perfectly in the pocket, exit was about 1.5 - 2" behind as she was very slightly quartering to, excellent double lung hit. When we opened her up, there was zero expansion, none. 6.5 cal entrance and exit. There was nothing other than rib and lungs hit, however when she was layed on her side, the penetration path was 7-8", maybe more, plenty of distance for expansion to initiate. The lungs looked nearly untouched, with maybe a 1" diameter bruise around the bullet pin hole path.

This is only an example of one, and it was on light game, however it was still a failure. I will also say that there was two other pronghorn taken with this same set up, on one neck bone was hit on a full sized doe, and another was hit a little far back through the back of both lungs but also the front of the paunch, and both were devastating.

Personally, for testing bullets, I put more weight in hits that don't contact much bone, or even stomach, stomach contents tend to be denser than lungs and help initiate expansion, and hitting bone can be decieving, as much of the damage done is likely not even from the bullet but the secondary projectiles. I have shot coyotes with FMJ 223 ammo that left incredible wounds, because I hit the shoulder. Actually, broadside behind the shoulder through both lungs is likely the lightest media in a game animal to pass a bullet through. Thin ribs, meat behind the shoulder, and lungs do not offer much resistance for a bullet to expand in when compared with shoulder meat, bone, liver, stomach contents, and so on.

Member PNWGator has detailed photos, if he sees this thread hopefully he posts some up.

Not very encouraging. When I first talked to Hornady about the bullet construction. I was afraid of this on game.