6.5 PRC Over pressure with H1000 and 156 Bergers

[BrentM]

Bad bad combo. Higher temps, hot as he!! loads, and its just a matter of time before the oh crap situation raises it's ugly head. That is hella fast speed for a 156.

For some reason berger data is something I could get nowhere close to regarding their max. I am positive they use hornady brass. I really don't understand their data at all. I use hornady info now and back off .5-1 grain for ADG and test up to find my own max. So far it's really close to their max.

For me in saami chamber the 156 hits the lands at 3.02. I run 2.950 with a .077 jump. I think he is jammed, making pressure even more volatile.

 

[Bdubose]

I shoot H-1000 in my 7 mag and in my experience it is much slower burner than RL25, so I don't think it is a powder issue.
I would double check the distance from lands. Sometimes things move - ie. seating die issues, etc.?

My thoughts.

 

[mcsh1pat]

I did a pressure ladder last weekend with 140 hybrids ADG Brass CCI 200 primers and H1000. I know it's not the same bullet or primer, but I had a heavy bolt at 58 grains / 3025fps, so 60 grains seems pretty hot for a 156.

 

[Eric Musgrove]

Good Morning,
Last year I called Berger and they told me the same info, we discussed seating depths as well. I don't have my notes in front of me at the moment. I loaded up the same loads with Hornady brass and had heavy bolt lift at 60 grs of H1000, I believe it was around 80-85F so I stopped and later pulled the rest. I assumed this was because my X-bolt pro has a mag and I was at max length for the mag and couldn't seat them longer. I settled on a load of 59.5 grs I will get my notes later and check but I believe it was 2990 fps(24in barrel) and accuracy was 1/2 moa at 200 yards. I was able to get some 143 ELDX bullets and I am currently prepping the brass for that load. As a side note the factory Hornady 143 ELDX didn't shoot that well, but barrel was new and speeds were was less than advertised. I believe I can push them passed 3000 fps with no problem.

 

[sedancowboy]

Was the load developed with new unfired brass and the pressure problems started when he loaded the brass for the 2nd time? If so the brass absorbed some energy fireforming. If a load is too hot it will rear its ugly head after the first firing. What ever the case the load is too hot for that rifle.
ADG recommends to start lower because their brass has less volume than other brands. There was a label on my last purchase of ADG brass stating that fact.

 

[vortech347]

Obviously, the load is too hot for fireformed brass. 3100+ with a 156 is very fast. There should be a good flat spot in the 2900 range if he does a ladder test and settle there. Then you never have to worry about temps. I can't anywhere close to that speed with my X Bolt Hell's Canyon Long Range with 26" barrel and RE26. Let alone with H1000.

 

[Kevin P McNeilly]

Carbon ring possible? Just covering all basics.

 

[Sending156s]

Just a thought but how confident is his .0015 off lands measurement? Could be he's actually in the lands causing pressure spike. I had this happen before with the Hornady OAL gauge. I measured again and I was touching the lands and not 0.0010 off.

This might not be the problem but worth a double check.

See above. This could certainly be the problem. He's at almost the same OAL I shoot the 156s at. Both of mine were built at GAP on XM length actions custom throated off dummy rounds with the 156s. My FB (throat) is .212.

This in addition to what is an obvious hot load. This past winter I went by Berger tech info on RL-26 & got a velocity I would never have expected with 156s (Won't state velocity as would be hard to believe). This spring that same load gave pressure & I backed off. As a side note Hornady list max pressure almost 4 full grains below Berger Techs. If Berger is going to give us their true max without a safety margin they need to give us full component breakdown of load. I think Berger tech is awesome & glad they are there to support us.

 

[Glenn Tullius]

My really nice muley didn't know he was killed with a 57grain load at a measly 3000 fps. Geez louise, max hot load in hot weather with nearly jammed bullets? I think there is a easy fix there. Good luck.

 

[cb4128]

After reading everything, he needs to back off 2 grains and do a pressure test, and back off the lands a bit to make sure he's not jamming them. I'd also consider using a 210m primer instead of the 215m - I've had great experience in this case size with the 210m's at a lower pressure than the 215m.

In my personal experience, once you have any increased bolt lift, I back off 2 grains and try to find a flat spot in my pressure test at a lower node. Usually 1-1.5gr between nodes in this size caliber.

My 6.5 SAUM is 1.0gr apart from accuracy nodes - pressure is around 62.0gr with H1000, Norma brass, 210m primer, the 140gr elite hunters and .015 off the lands.

 

[rustyshackleford]

Just texted a buddy of mine who's fiddled with 6.5 PRC quite a bit and that's wayyy hot. He got 2950 with a 147 ELD and a 150 smk with H1000 before he had pressure signs. With RL-26 he's pushing a 156 at 3030. Using a formula from Litz 2865 would be warm using 156's and H1000 in my buddy's gun. It's a 24 inch barrel but even if a 26" picks up 50-100 ft/sec you're still too hot

 

[seidersjoden]

Aloha All

Just wanted to post this here to see if anyone has anything similar happen to them. With this powder/bullet combo. Thanks in advance!

Have a buddy who hads a 6.5 PRC giving him issues on a hunt right now.

Here's his load specs:
New adg brass,
F215M
60gn h1000,
Berger 156 eol,
coal 3.0735,
cbto 2.360 = 15 thou off the lands

He told me he spoke to berger to get chg weights for H1000 & this cartridge/bullet combo. He was given 54.5 start 60.4 Max. He did note that they wouldn't give him brass brand they were using.

He did load work up from 56-60.5, 60.5 had very slight bolt lift resistance, Not heavy etc! Settled on 60 gr load less than .5 groups.

Below is what he had from LR for velocity. Until yesterday he had shot roughly 30 rounds with no pressure signs etc. Temps here are mid to high 80's

So he checks zero yesterday before today's hunt and first 3 shots all blown primers heavy bolt lift. He's scratching his head and bummed because he only took 20 rounds of 143's with him which he's already shot 10 lol.

Only thing that comes to mind is if the ADG Brass has a different volume than what berger was using (I'm thinking hornady?) Therefore the ADG Max is less than what berger is using. BUT...he worked up loads and none showed high pressure signs.

Idk what ppl seeing for velocity with this bullet but I told him that what he's getting is up there. But idk much about the PRC. I have a 6.5x284 n only doing 2950 with 130's.

He's got meat in the cooler so I told him I'd try and ask if anyone has ideas on the forums.

Sorry, his rifle is built on a tikka action. Started out as 300 Win mag. Had gunsmith rebarrel it with a proof sendero 7.5 twist 26" Put it in a woox exacts stock l believe.

Joden here. I have quite a bit of experience with the 65 PRC, I killed quite a few critters with it couple over 1K. So now that my experience has checked out and I'm not just some keyboard hero here we go. My gun was built by GA precision. When I did load development I found that 58g of H1000 was starting to show pressure signs. So I backed that down and found that 56.6g was my go to load, especially considering hornady brass is a little softer. I was getting 3026FPS. And the brass lasted 5-6 firings. The fact that you were shooting a heavier bullet and more powder even with ADG brass, you are definitely over pressured. You might be able to get away with it if you were shooting a lighter bullet but it depends on what you want. That Berger Bullets has good BC so personally I would stick with it lower the load, quit chasing the numbers, add a few more clicks.

Good luck!
-J

 

[seidersjoden]

Aloha All

Just wanted to post this here to see if anyone has anything similar happen to them. With this powder/bullet combo. Thanks in advance!

Have a buddy who hads a 6.5 PRC giving him issues on a hunt right now.

Here's his load specs:
New adg brass,
F215M
60gn h1000,
Berger 156 eol,
coal 3.0735,
cbto 2.360 = 15 thou off the lands

He told me he spoke to berger to get chg weights for H1000 & this cartridge/bullet combo. He was given 54.5 start 60.4 Max. He did note that they wouldn't give him brass brand they were using.

He did load work up from 56-60.5, 60.5 had very slight bolt lift resistance, Not heavy etc! Settled on 60 gr load less than .5 groups.

Below is what he had from LR for velocity. Until yesterday he had shot roughly 30 rounds with no pressure signs etc. Temps here are mid to high 80's

So he checks zero yesterday before today's hunt and first 3 shots all blown primers heavy bolt lift. He's scratching his head and bummed because he only took 20 rounds of 143's with him which he's already shot 10 lol.

Only thing that comes to mind is if the ADG Brass has a different volume than what berger was using (I'm thinking hornady?) Therefore the ADG Max is less than what berger is using. BUT...he worked up loads and none showed high pressure signs.

Idk what ppl seeing for velocity with this bullet but I told him that what he's getting is up there. But idk much about the PRC. I have a 6.5x284 n only doing 2950 with 130's.

He's got meat in the cooler so I told him I'd try and ask if anyone has ideas on the forums.

Sorry, his rifle is built on a tikka action. Started out as 300 Win mag. Had gunsmith rebarrel it with a proof sendero 7.5 twist 26" Put it in a woox exacts stock l believe.

Joden here. I have quite a bit of experience with the 65 PRC, I killed quite a few critters with it couple over 1K. So now that my experience has checked out and I'm not just some keyboard hero here we go. My gun was built by GA precision. When I did load development I found that 58g of H1000 was starting to show pressure signs. So I backed that down and found that 56.6g was my go to load, especially considering hornady brass is a little softer. I was getting 3026FPS. And the brass lasted 5-6 firings. The fact that you were shooting a heavier bullet and more powder even with ADG brass, you are definitely over pressured. You might be able to get away with it if you were shooting a lighter bullet but it depends on what you want. That Berger Bullets has good BC so personally I would stick with it lower the load, quit chasing the numbers, add a few more clicks.

Good luck!
-J

 

[7070yshot]

Aloha All

Just wanted to post this here to see if anyone has anything similar happen to them. With this powder/bullet combo. Thanks in advance!

Have a buddy who hads a 6.5 PRC giving him issues on a hunt right now.

Here's his load specs:
New adg brass,
F215M
60gn h1000,
Berger 156 eol,
coal 3.0735,
cbto 2.360 = 15 thou off the lands

He told me he spoke to berger to get chg weights for H1000 & this cartridge/bullet combo. He was given 54.5 start 60.4 Max. He did note that they wouldn't give him brass brand they were using.

He did load work up from 56-60.5, 60.5 had very slight bolt lift resistance, Not heavy etc! Settled on 60 gr load less than .5 groups.

Below is what he had from LR for velocity. Until yesterday he had shot roughly 30 rounds with no pressure signs etc. Temps here are mid to high 80's

So he checks zero yesterday before today's hunt and first 3 shots all blown primers heavy bolt lift. He's scratching his head and bummed because he only took 20 rounds of 143's with him which he's already shot 10 lol.

Only thing that comes to mind is if the ADG Brass has a different volume than what berger was using (I'm thinking hornady?) Therefore the ADG Max is less than what berger is using. BUT...he worked up loads and none showed high pressure signs.

Idk what ppl seeing for velocity with this bullet but I told him that what he's getting is up there. But idk much about the PRC. I have a 6.5x284 n only doing 2950 with 130's.

He's got meat in the cooler so I told him I'd try and ask if anyone has ideas on the forums.

Sorry, his rifle is built on a tikka action. Started out as 300 Win mag. Had gunsmith rebarrel it with a proof sendero 7.5 twist 26" Put it in a woox exacts stock l believe.

Drop to 57.2 - no pressure and 3075
FPS