6.5 prc elk bullet poll!

[WildRose]

Although the 143 ELD-X is polling last, ironically it has killed more elk than the others combined.

Assumption without any supporting evidence.

 

[WildRose]

Next time you guys hammer a big bull elk trim the meat off the scapula that is defeating all these high powered rifle projectiles, then examine for a moment how incredibly thin it is.

Time for some folks to admit they miss more than they think and gut shot a bunch of game "RiGhT iN ThE sHoUlDER"

Bullets don't have to be deflected to be ineffective and the scapula isn't "the shoulder", it is part of the shoulder.

The other main part is the humerus and if it isn't broken with the bullet just passing through the scapula and failing to expand without striking the spine a bull is just going to run off and may not even look injured.

The scapula itself is so thin that if that's the only bone hit a whole lot of "tough" bullets will fail to expand at all or only expand minimally.

Understanding the anatomy of large game animals is certainly not required to be successful but it sure helps a whole lot to understand what key/vital structures are where particularly if you can actually place a bullet at the intended point of aim.

The Shoulder

Chapter 51 The Shoulder Mark C. Rochat The canine shoulder (glenohumeral) joint is a part of the musculoskeletal system that historically has received sparse attention. Although conditions of the s…

veteriankey.com

 

[General RE LEE]

Assumption without any supporting evidence.

I'm pretty confident the factory Precision Hunter ammo in 6.5 CM and 6.5 PRC have out sold Hammers and Bergers at least 2:1. I'm not saying Hammers and Bergers aren't good, I'm saying the bullet polling last has likely killed more elk.

 

[Hard rock]

I'm pretty confident the factory Precision Hunter ammo in 6.5 CM and 6.5 PRC have out sold Hammers and Bergers at least 2:1. I'm not saying Hammers and Bergers aren't good, I'm saying the bullet polling last has likely killed more elk.

If that is true , it's because there is more factory ammo shooters , than reloaders.We are becoming a rare breed 9 out of 10 plus hunters don't have a clue about bullet performance on game . They rely on the factory ammo and what others have told them . That is my experience on hunting trips and in hunting camps . I've been on hands and knees tracking animals , some too be found and some not . That's the world I live in .

 

[RockyRandy]

We have a 137g Hammer Hunter. It requires a 1-6.5" twist or fast to make it fully stable. It is right on the edge of being too long for any twist. The density diff between copper and lead is 20%. This basically causes the copper bullet to be 20% longer for the weight than a lead core bullet of the same form.

In other words, few people have a fast enough twist to run a copper bullet in the 140g class. We do have a Shock Hammer the weighs 139g that will stabilize in an 8" twist. It is a long blunt nosed, nearly flat based bullet, in order to get to that heavy and still be stable in the 8" twist.

Thank you for answering my question. I did know the difference between copper and lead core but I did notice that the copper bullets were always less weight that people were using, now I know why. Who said you can't teach a old dog a new trick.
Thanks again, Randy

 

[RockyRandy]

Barrel twist rate. You have to have the right twists for the bullet. The twist rate for a 137 grain hammer is 1 in 6.5. Most 6.5's don't come with barrels with that twist rate. It seems 1 in 8 is pretty standard from most of the factory rifles I have seen. If you have a custom made you could certainly get a barrel with a 1 in 6.5 twist. Just my two cents.

Makes since. Mine is 1-8

 

[Txcowboy50]

.264 Cal-137gr Hammer Hunter™ - Hammer Bullets

Recommended twist is 1-6.5" or faster Bullet length is 1.565" Nose length is .8736" Bullet weight is 139gr Recommended use: Big game hunting G7-BC=.280 estimated

hammerbullets.com

Sorry if I misstated something, I was going off of the info on the website.

Nope you are correct about the 137...i was pointing out the 131gr were made for the 6,5 PRC with 1 in 7.5 twist.
https://hammerbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/26131HH.jpg

 

[hydehunter]

I have had good results with the Berger 156 shoot 3/4 inch at 200 yds. But it looks like Hammer 124 are winning this pole. I have not loaded the Hammer bullets but it looks like the 131 would be a better choice if you are shooting a 6.5 PRC with 1:7.5 twist. I am always trying to improve my mouse trap so was think I would load a few and see how they shoot. Any one will to share load data with these two Hammers?

contact Steve at Hammer Bullets

 

[Hard rock]

contact Steve at Hammer Bullets

Reguardless of what the poll says , all of those bullets are capable , they have diff characteristics. I prefer hammer , because I like a bullet too exit among other things that favor Hammers . Berger and the Eldx perform different learn those differences then make your choice

 

[Andrew Massi]

Bullets don't have to be deflected to be ineffective and the scapula isn't "the shoulder", it is part of the shoulder.

View attachment 405707

The other main part is the humerus and if it isn't broken with the bullet just passing through the scapula and failing to expand without striking the spine a bull is just going to run off and may not even look injured.


View attachment 405708


The scapula itself is so thin that if that's the only bone hit a whole lot of "tough" bullets will fail to expand at all or only expand minimally.

Understanding the anatomy of large game animals is certainly not required to be successful but it sure helps a whole lot to understand what key/vital structures are where particularly if you can actually place a bullet at the intended point of aim.

Nope. Well designed bullets don't wound in a linear fashion( monos, which are Inferior at killing do) bullets that are designed for and excel at killing will initiate rapid lethal expansion when they encounter tissue and fluid. Poor slow killing or tough bullets may not "expand" well but they also don't create good would channels anyway.

Miss where you're aiming and hit a scapula with an expanding bullet like a berger/scenar and it will penetrate the scap, destroy the lungs and probably the heart.

My point was and is- people are scared of elk shoulders and they shouldn't be. They aren't made of plate steel they are thin malleable and easily punctured. Even the humorous which is the thickest bone isn't bullet proof. But like your handy drawings point out, it isn't near the vitals and if it's encountered then you missed.

Elk aren't bullet proof.

 

[Rocketeer77]

Doesn't check any boxes for me and don't see the benefit. Kinda likes redheads...just not my thing. No hate for either.

I married a red head 25 years ago! You're missing out on two good things in life....
My bias is men who wear jewellery or smoke a pipe, they're most usually tossers!

 

[WildRose]

I'm pretty confident the factory Precision Hunter ammo in 6.5 CM and 6.5 PRC have out sold Hammers and Bergers at least 2:1. I'm not saying Hammers and Bergers aren't good, I'm saying the bullet polling last has likely killed more elk.

There's a whole lot of ammo sold with Berger Bullets in them as well.

There's just no data available anywhere I know of to support those assumptions.

I have had more than fair luck myself with the ELD-X I just don't think that's in any way provably factual.

 

[WildRose]

If that is true , it's because there is more factory ammo shooters , than reloaders.We are becoming a rare breed 9 out of 10 plus hunters don't have a clue about bullet performance on game . They rely on the factory ammo and what others have told them . That is my experience on hunting trips and in hunting camps . I've been on hands and knees tracking animals , some too be found and some not . That's the world I live in .

Entirely true. They either shoot dad's or grampa's old leftovers from the hall closet or they buy whatever happens to be in stock at Academy, Walmart, Cabela's etc all of which we know are hit and miss at best.

The average deer hunter isn't shooting more than a box or two of shells every couple of years.

 

[WildRose]

Nope. Well designed bullets don't wound in a linear fashion( monos, which are Inferior at killing do) bullets that are designed for and excel at killing will initiate rapid lethal expansion when they encounter tissue and fluid. Poor slow killing or tough bullets may not "expand" well but they also don't create good would channels anyway.

Miss where you're aiming and hit a scapula with an expanding bullet like a berger/scenar and it will penetrate the scap, destroy the lungs and probably the heart.

My point was and is- people are scared of elk shoulders and they shouldn't be. They aren't made of plate steel they are thin malleable and easily punctured. Even the humorous which is the thickest bone isn't bullet proof. But like your handy drawings point out, it isn't near the vitals and if it's encountered then you missed.

Elk aren't bullet proof.

That's funny. We spend several years here listening to people complain Berger's failed to expand and went through like an ice pick, or just blew up shallow failing to enter the body cavity with lot's of good documentation, photos, recovered bullets etc.

A properly constructed bullet used as intended will do it's job and kill effectively as long as you use them as designed and intended barring some sort of QC issue.

Understanding how bullets are designed and constructed along with understanding the characteristics of your target and it's anatomy when deciding on an intended point of aim eliminate most of those issues.

If mono's were inferior at killing, they would not be so popular with professional dangerous game guides and hunters.

From what I've seen looking at literally thousands of carcasses is that most people either don't understand the anatomy or can't hit their desired aimpoint when they are guaranteeing, "I hit him dead on the shoulder".

A little too high hittig only the top of the scapula there's just not enough tissue to damage, too low and a bullet is likely to just pass through doing very little damage and may miss the lungs entirely.

Put it through or at the top of the heart and base of the lungs or through the spine with any quality bullet and they'll drop in their tracks or move less than a hundred yards.

It always cracks me up watching "shoulder shot" videos and seeing that if anything was hit at all it was just ribs high on or even missing the lungs which can result in even a deer running a very long way or just through the meat a little forward of the heart in which case they may well survive never to be seen again.

Most hunters need to spend a lot more time studying their prey and they bullets they choose to shoot at them so they can better understand how to be effective with them.