6.5 haters

[yogibearmech]

I was just answering his question. That's a fast 6.5 PRC. What is your load for that. Bullet, powder, barrel length?

Probably would go with it myself nowadays as it is everywhere.

I bought a CA ridgeline for my wife been playing with 140 berger hybrids 62 grains N570 Lapua brass CCI BR 2 primers in a 24 inch barrel getting 3119 fps average.

 

[h_1ag]

Again if you are paying for a custom gun and only getting 3/4 you need to fire you gunsmith. You are comparing a custom made bench round with tight neck tolerances to a ruger percision rifle. NO comparison. Just like every cartridge out there there have been wild catters that change them like the 284 Shehane it is based off the 284 Winchester which is inherently accurate Winchester screwed up when they only promoted it for their lever gun. The hipster with the needmoor and the cheap vortex would be crapping his (how ever they identify) pants against guys with bench rifles at a 1000 yards. SAMMI is minimal specs with slop. Most gunsmiths I have met and worked with keep their tolerances WELL under SAMMI. Their reamers are sharp and they only build and assemble one rifle at a time. Production rifles not so much.

6.5 Creedmoor [Ultimate Guide]: Military’s New Caliber

Newly adopted by the US military, find out why the 6.5 Creedmoor rocks. We cover ballistics vs the .308, recommended rifles, AR-10 uppers, ammo, and more.

www.pewpewtactical.com

Here is a link that shows just how bad people love to hype the needmoor.

I should have been more literal Vs figurative there with describing expectations for custom rifles. The point was simply that factory rifles in modern chamberings (in this case the hated Creedmoor) are observed achieving accuracy that was historically only expected from custom builds from quality smiths costing 5-15x as much. A well built custom rifle should obviously be 1/2" or better in even the most ancient chamberings (example: my local central Texas custom builder recently sold a .375H&H grouping .592". For $7.6k).
What I was talking about was Creedmoor is "inherently accurate" enough within SAAMI specs to easily achieve sub moa, whereas you're not going to get that out of, say, a WinMag because the tolerances are so loose and it spaces off of the belt. You'll have to pay +$5k to have a smith fix those shortcomings. A good smith could probably make a Mosin Nagant look great!

Pewpew obviosuly drinks the koolaid- because they're trying to get people to click their links and buy their products so they can earn a commission. I read through their article- what did they say that was absurdly hype and untrue? That SOCOM started chambering them? That they can be used for hunting at 500? What am I missing there?

 

[0002s]

Why not just go 6.5 PRC? 270+ FPS to the creed, short action, plenty of factory offerings

Why not indeed? There is not replacement for displacement.

6.5 PRC Barnes 127gr LRX BT (3253 fps) The shot wasn't long at 397 yards. Hornaday factory 6.5 CM 147 ELD-X does not hit like this.

Blew 1/2 the heart out of the exit hole. We followed pieces of heart for 25 yards.

 

[yogibearmech]

I should have been more literal Vs figurative there with describing expectations for custom rifles. The point was simply that factory rifles in modern chamberings (in this case the hated Creedmoor) are observed achieving accuracy that was historically only expected from custom builds from quality smiths costing 5-15x as much. A well built custom rifle should obviously be 1/2" or better in even the most ancient chamberings (example: my local central Texas custom builder recently sold a .375H&H grouping .592". For $7.6k).
What I was talking about was Creedmoor is "inherently accurate" enough within SAAMI specs to easily achieve sub moa, whereas you're not going to get that out of, say, a WinMag because the tolerances are so loose and it spaces off of the belt. You'll have to pay +$5k to have a smith fix those shortcomings. A good smith could probably make a Mosin Nagant look great!

Pewpew obviosuly drinks the koolaid- because they're trying to get people to click their links and buy their products so they can earn a commission. I read through their article- what did they say that was absurdly hype and untrue? That SOCOM started chambering them? That they can be used for hunting at 500? What am I missing there?

1994 Browning A Bolt 300 WM running 210 Berger at 200 yards 4 shot group I think it will compete with a needmmor especially for an old belted mag

 

[h_1ag]

Been to TX a few times, everything is bigger and better out there! Of course there is always that old saying nothing but steers and queers come from TX

That's just austin

 

[Allen Lone wolf]

Factory ammo 6.5 143gr ELDX mule deer. Nuf said.

 

[h_1ag]

Why not indeed? There is not replacement for displacement.

6.5 PRC Barnes 127gr LRX BT (3253 fps) The shot wasn't long at 397 yards. Hornaday factory 6.5 CM 147 ELD-X does not hit like this.

Blew 1/2 the heart out of the exit hole. We followed pieces of heart for 25 yards.


View attachment 470449

I admittedly and enthusiastically supportive of 6.5PRC and love my Bergara… but to be fair- what's the difference between a 6.5PRC at 400 and a 6.5Creedmoor at 300? I don't think the animals can read the head stamp.

 

[Shane Lindsey]

Why not indeed? There is not replacement for displacement.

6.5 PRC Barnes 127gr LRX BT (3253 fps) The shot wasn't long at 397 yards. Hornaday factory 6.5 CM 147 ELD-X does not hit like this.

Blew 1/2 the heart out of the exit hole. We followed pieces of heart for 25 yards.


View attachment 470449

What is your LRX load?

 

[del2les]

.260-AI is a cool niche chambering, but that's not a commercial cartridge. Sorry I didn't clarify that. I guess if we really wanted to have a ****ing match about the biggest and baddest short action 6.5, people could whip out their 6.5PRC or 6.5 Super Duper Sherman or 6.5WSM. My comments were intended to reflect commercial cartridges.

Slow down there Tex. No one, except maybe you, was trying to have a ****ing match about biggest and baddest 6.5's. I and many others, simply do not see any real advantage of the 6.5CM as a hunting cartridge be it SR, LR or ELR. Several of us have used the 6.5CM, and we just did not discover what all the marketing hype was about. Several locals who bought CM's eventually sold them due to various reasons, but mostly out here, it lacked power at LR hunting ranges.

It was designed as an XC and 1,000yd target round, and at that, it performs very well, but then so do many others. Its main advantage was it came chambered in factory rifles with mostly 1/8tw for higher BC bullets loaded from the factories, but for those of us already in that game for decades and for LR/ELR hunting, it was/is lacking when compared to already existing cartridges and loads.

I could not care less if someone wants to buy and shoot a 6.5CM, but like everything else, it has its limits.
Personally, I load for 52 different cartridges, so I have no issues with trying different things, but the 6.5CM just did not impress this old shooter.

 

[Shane Lindsey]

I bought a CA ridgeline for my wife been playing with 140 berger hybrids 62 grains N570 Lapua brass CCI BR 2 primers in a 24 inch barrel getting 3119 fps average.

That's pretty fast. How many firings on those cases?

I tried N570 with the 156 Bergers in my SAUM but it didn't do as well in the 6.5x284N. Pushing them pockets went fast...

 

[h_1ag]

1994 Browning A Bolt 300 WM running 210 Berger at 200 yards 4 shot group I think it will compete with a needmmor especially for an old belted mag

Great grouping… but the next one off the line could have shot 2" groups. I've got an embarrassingly cheap Rem 783 in .270 that shoots .75 MOA with Winchester SuperX 150s (.6MOA with hand loaded 140 Noslers). But that's an anomaly. Meanwhile, virtually every Savage and Ruger I've ever seen in Creedmoor does that or better with ELDs. The design seems to produce high levels of consistency.

 

[yogibearmech]

That's pretty fast. How many firings on those cases?

I tried N570 with the 156 Bergers in my SAUM but it didn't do as well in the 6.5x284N. Pushing them pockets went fast...

First firings. I am a 0.5 grain under what Berger sent me for data. The ones I have fired the pockets are still tight. I intended on the N570 for my 28 Nosler but it didn't like it ES and SD were horrible. This little CA seems to shoot just about anything.

 

[h_1ag]

Slow down there Tex. No one, except maybe you, was trying to have a ****ing match about biggest and baddest 6.5's. I and many others, simply do not see any real advantage of the 6.5CM as a hunting cartridge be it SR, LR or LR. Several of us have used the 6.5CM, and we just did not discover what all the marketing hype was about. Several locals who bought CM's eventually sold them due to various reasons, but mostly out here, it lacked power at LR hunting ranges.

It was design as a XC and 1,000yd target round, and at that, it performs very well, but then so do many others. Its main advantage was it came chambered in factory rifles with mostly 1/8tw for higher BC bullets loaded from the factories, but for those of us already in that game for decades and for LR/ELR hunting, it was/is lacking when compared to already existing cartridges and loads.

I could not care less if someone wants to buy and shoot a 6.5CM, but like everything else, it has its limits.
Personally, I load for 52 different cartridges, so I have no issues with trying different things, but the 6.5CM just did not impress this old shooter.

I was simply explaining that 6.5CM introduced a factory offering that was previously unavailable and that's why it's popular. If you wanted to shoot medium game out to 500 and targets out to 1k, your previous best bet was .308. Anyone that can read a ballistic chart without letting their personal biases interfere can see that 6.5CM is the better choice at longer distances because of BC and wind.
Obviously custom rifles and wildcats can far exceed Creedmoor and if I said anything suggesting otherwise, that was not intended.

 

[yogibearmech]

Great grouping… but the next one off the line could have shot 2" groups. I've got an embarrassingly cheap Rem 783 in .270 that shoots .75 MOA with Winchester SuperX 150s (.6MOA with hand loaded 140 Noslers). But that's an anomaly. Meanwhile, virtually every Savage and Ruger I've ever seen in Creedmoor does that or better with ELDs. The design seems to produce high levels of consistency.

No doubt the needmoor was built for accuracy. I will never take that from it. 6.5's they have always been accurate. The browning has a boss on it. Unfortunately it never caught on like it should have for factory guns and accuracy. Several are using suppressors these days for weight to control barrel whip and spending WAY too much to achieve the same as what the boss produced. It helps with accuracy. The 300 WM has been an inherently accurate round as well. The CA 6.5 PRC I bought my wife loves just about everything its an accurate round itself. The extra velocity on the PRC will give you more hydraulic shock if the bullet holds together enough to mushroom and create a piston. I would not take an elk with it over 400 though. Just seems too small in my book to kill that animal that quickly.