6.5 Creedmoor or 25-06 for Deer

[RockyMtnMT]

Sorry, I don't even do windage math for 25 caliber bullets, and I don't see an efficient case for the .625 B.C. Nosler ABLR 270. I quit on magnum cases.

Sorry. I thought maybe you had done the calcs on where the 6.5 Creed would take over and out perform the 25-06 from your comment that the 6.5 would out perform the ¼ bore in every way.

Steve

 

[Buck Buster]

I may be wrong in my observations, but I keep thinking when looking at new guns that are coming out or different configurations of guns that we already have that they are trying to make them do what a magnum caliber already does!! Why not just buy a magnum and be done with it? Common sense to me. I have a 300 Win. mag. and a 308 Norma magnum, lots more energy, less wind drift, ECT. than the 6.5 or even the 7mm will have. I now they shoot good under good conditions I have seen 6.5 - 300s and 7mm 300s win 1000 yard matches before, but not in the wind. Then along came the 30 - 378 cal. and it would clean house for many years. I hear that the gun to beat now, out over 1500 to over 2000 yards is the 38 - 378 or the 38 Lapua. You can't beat the real thing!!

 

[Michael O'Connor]

Sorry. I thought maybe you had done the calcs on where the 6.5 Creed would take over and out perform the 25-06 from your comment that the 6.5 would out perform the ¼ bore in every way.

Steve

The .264 has a higher sectional density than a .257, so until you reach the distance at very similar velocities; the .264 at high B.C. will always outperform the .257. It is much easier to maim an animal with a smaller frontal area, (diameter bullet), you also chance losing game with a smaller diameter bullet at great distance unless you are in a helicopter, smaller diameter bullets at distance create a lesser wound channel. Try following a blood trail from almost a half of mile away from where your game animal was shot. A waste of good meat, not to use the appropriate caliber.

 

[Canhunter35]

Sorry, I don't even do windage math for 25 caliber bullets, and I don't see an efficient case for the .625 B.C. Nosler ABLR 270. I quit on magnum cases.

The answer Steve was looking for is around 600yds the 6.5 starts beating it substantially in drift. It never really does in drop. And 600yds is conveniently about max range for terminal performance of a 25-06...so as a hunting cartridge in practical hunting distances, the 6.5 never really beats the 25-06.

 

[Michael O'Connor]

I may be wrong in my observations, but I keep thinking when looking at new guns that are coming out or different configurations of guns that we already have that they are trying to make them do what a magnum caliber already does!! Why not just buy a magnum and be done with it? Common sense to me. I have a 300 Win. mag. and a 308 Norma magnum, lots more energy, less wind drift, ECT. than the 6.5 or even the 7mm will have. I now they shoot good under good conditions I have seen 6.5 - 300s and 7mm 300s win 1000 yard matches before, but not in the wind. Then along came the 30 - 378 cal. and it would clean house for many years. I hear that the gun to beat now, out over 1500 to over 2000 yards is the 38 - 378 or the 38 Lapua. You can't beat the real thing!!

A 308 Norma Magnum is more like a 300 Win Mag. The 300 Norma Magnum is a Shortened Lapua or Rigby case. It may have 200-300 fps more velocity than the aforementioned cartridges dependant upon bullet weight. 300 Norma Magnum rivals the 300 RUM and 30 Nosler in a stronger cartridge case. That is why the Military adopted it for a sniper rifle. It shares commonality with the 416 Rigby based 338 Lapua Magnum. It is just a shorter, and very efficient case.

 

[okie man]

I'll say this, both the 6.5 creed and 25/06 need charts for shots over 500 yards and in wind! Which chart do you wanna read!

 

[Prieto9000]

Back to the OP, original question, 25.06, or 6.5 creedmoor.
I will start by saying, that a well loaded 25.06, will flat kill a deer, at distance, as well as some overbored,magnums, and the deer dont care. I personally, have killed a PLENTY, of deer with it, and have tracked none. Thanks to Barnes. So, enough on that subject.
As to the other option, 6.5 creed, all else being equal, meaning standard twist rates, and bullet weights, there is a point that the creedmoor will over power the 06, down range, due to 6.5 being able to stabilize a heavier bullet, due to the 1-8 twist, whereas, the standard twist for the 06 is 1-10 which makes it top out at about 120 grains.
Which also brings about a interesting scenario, if you shoot 120 grain bullets out of each, the exit velocity is about the same, but the the six five , having the higher bc, will have less drop.
So, my take was to keep it more apples/apples. And the six five, is in a short action, with tons of awesome ammo, IF, you don't reload.
I love an 06, it is truly Badass, but , I feel the 6.5 overshadows it slightly, more so, its a short action to boot.
JMHO,

At what yardage does the Creed beat the 25-06 in a significant way for drop and drift?

Steve

Just out of curiosity I graphed the 28"barreled .257 way @ 3450 posted earlier beside my 26" 6.5 CM and this came out.
the 257 will always be flatter, but the CM will out power it around 350yds.
On the wind it´s a different story. The 6.5 will always have less drift.

 

[okie man]

I know with my 257 weatherby at 500 yards and no wind I hold the 3rd crosshair on the heart and squeeze the trigger deer drop in sight

 

[Prieto9000]

The answer Steve was looking for is around 600yds the 6.5 starts beating it substantially in drift. It never really does in drop. And 600yds is conveniently about max range for terminal performance of a 25-06...so as a hunting cartridge in practical hunting distances, the 6.5 never really beats the 25-06.

It will beat it in windy conditions every time.

 

[Michael O'Connor]

The answer Steve was looking for is around 600yds the 6.5 starts beating it substantially in drift. It never really does in drop. And 600yds is conveniently about max range for terminal performance of a 25-06...so as a hunting cartridge in practical hunting distances, the 6.5 never really beats the 25-06.

I think I already explained, and even out to 600 yds. , that a 6.5 Creedmoor will be more inherently accurate than a 25-06 with a 117-120 grain bullet. Not only from wind drift, but recoil.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I don't do math on 25 caliber bullets. I just look at "purported" B.C. anymore, until I see custom bulletsmiths come out with a hybrid rebated boat tail in that caliber.

Rebated boat tails do not work well. Tried them.

Steve

 

[MudRunner2005]

There is no such thing as "inherent accuracy". There is only accuracy and inaccuracy. And it has more to do with the rifle and barrel, than the caliber & cartridge that it's chambered for. There are, however, some cartridges/calibers that are easier to get shooting than others because the cartridge design is less picky or was better designed than something else, but as far as "inherent accuracy", there is no such thing.

 

[Pdvdh]

I own a 25RUM, but it's a 10-twist. The 10 twist is pathetic with the RUM case capacity. I need to replace that barrel, and I'm open to other calibers & cartridges. So I read thru this thread with much interest, yet an objective mind-set.

The diameter difference is only 0.007". I don't expect huge differences in terminal performance in cartridges of similar volumetric capacity. Two cartridges specified in this thread, so capacity is now a known. 25-06 prevails in that criterion. Yet the .257 bullet offerings are sadly lacking.

Straightforward solution for a reloader is 6.5-06. Neck the 25-06 up to .264. I know,... That's cheating!

Impose the factory ammo and factory rifle limitation and between the two specified options, and the better selection seems to be the 6.5.

Remove any and all cartridge limitations and include all available barrel twist rates (my situation), and 6.5 seems advantageous based on the abundant bullet offerings available in 6.5.

Cheating a second time, maybe I should go 6.5RUM with the appropriate twist rate to handle arrow-length bullets!

This could transition into a complete and total Thread hi-jack, so I'll end this post now.

 

[Canhunter35]

It will beat it in windy conditions every time.

Yes, but by a click of two at 500 in 10mph crosswind. Not enough to say it makes a difference.