6.5 Creedmoor or 25-06 for Deer

[snox801]

lol I thought I never would till I bought one. I can run a 12.588 with my crew cab long box 3.5 ecoboost. Never could do that with my diesel. And it pulls my car everywhere. I got a 16 focus rs with a big turbo and meth. It goes ok

 

[Canhunter35]

Lol I feel like I should apologize to the op for a poor metaphor...what was I thinking comparing a v6 to a v8? Now they keep talking trucks! Haha, just ragging on u guys!

 

[7stw]

Back to the OP, original question, 25.06, or 6.5 creedmoor.
I will start by saying, that a well loaded 25.06, will flat kill a deer, at distance, as well as some overbored,magnums, and the deer dont care. I personally, have killed a PLENTY, of deer with it, and have tracked none. Thanks to Barnes. So, enough on that subject.
As to the other option, 6.5 creed, all else being equal, meaning standard twist rates, and bullet weights, there is a point that the creedmoor will over power the 06, down range, due to 6.5 being able to stabilize a heavier bullet, due to the 1-8 twist, whereas, the standard twist for the 06 is 1-10 which makes it top out at about 120 grains.
Which also brings about a interesting scenario, if you shoot 120 grain bullets out of each, the exit velocity is about the same, but the the six five , having the higher bc, will have less drop.
So, my take was to keep it more apples/apples. And the six five, is in a short action, with tons of awesome ammo, IF, you don't reload.
I love an 06, it is truly Badass, but , I feel the 6.5 overshadows it slightly, more so, its a short action to boot.
JMHO,

 

[IHFarmer07]

I don't even know where to begin to respond to that... Especially the part about not having killed enough animals with a certain caliber to tell a good kill from a bad kill... Last I checked, the animal is dead and recovered and harvested...That's a good kill. I haven't killed any with my .25-06 AI, but I shot enough of them with my .257 Weatherby to know that the .25 caliber bullets traveling over 3,300 FPS will flat-kill whitetail deer.

Also, animals run. They don't bang-flop every time, and honestly, that rarely happens unless you happen to hit the CNS just right when the animal is not stressed at all. If the animal is alert or stressed, and you shoot it, it's going to run because it's adrenaline is already running from it's fight or flight response that's being triggered in its brain.

While I normally use 7mm and .30 caliber cartridges for deer hunting, they are not necessary. Animals are not magical and are not that hard to kill. Some run, some don't, and as long as you know how to shoot, put the bullet where you want it, and know how to track, you shouldn't lose any animals, regardless of caliber diameter. There are many deer killed each year by AR's chambered in .223 Remington.

Oh, and as for bullets blowing up, it's well-documented that I've had a Hornady 139 SST grenade on a whitetail from a 7mm RemMag when it was running over 3,300 FPS MV. The deer was found and harvested, but it made a mess. My point is, any bullet that's too light traveling too fast has the potential to explode.

Accuracy... EVERY cartridge has the potential to be just as accurate as any other...Some rifles are just not as accurate as others. The .25-06 is no exception, and can be just as accurate as a 6mm Dasher being shot from a 70 lb. HG benchrest rig bolted to a metal slide.

To the OP, pick what you want, but don't believe that there is anything wrong with the .25-06, other than the lack of heavy high-BC bullets, and that's the industry's fault for letting all the .25 caliber shooters down.

As for the .25-06 being an "antique", that doesn't have anything to do with anything. That's like saying the .30-06 is obsolete because it's been around since 1906... TO this day, it's still one of the most widely used and revered American hunting cartridges that's ever been created.

I never meant being "antique" was a bad thing. I own a 30-06 and I think its antique because it WAS made in 1906, the 25-06 is not far behind, kind of makes me feel I have a piece of history but both are great rounds. All I'm saying with being "antique" is that its been around for so long, its been modified, there has been many wild cat cartridges made off of them that are better options/improved options that are out there now than a 30-06 and 25-06, but the 06's has such a long/great history.

It depends on what the OP wants to do as far as how far he wants to shoot, how much he wants to spend on ammo, if he wants a long action or a short action, ect. The 6.5 is better in some aspects than the 25-06, for longer distances but are very close to each other, the way the case is designed is better, higher bc bullets, rifling should last longer, its a very modern capable cartridge. The 25-06 ammo is available probably every where because it is "antique", cheaper and still widely used. If you want the latest and greatest, which that is what I'm looking into, it would be of the 6.5 or 7mm breed.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Lol I feel like I should apologize to the op for a poor metaphor...what was I thinking comparing a v6 to a v8? Now they keep talking trucks! Haha, just ragging on u guys!

We moved it to PM's. Didn't want to keep derailing the thread.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I never meant being "antique" was a bad thing. I own a 30-06 and I think its antique because it WAS made in 1906, the 25-06 is not far behind, kind of makes me feel I have a piece of history but both are great rounds. All I'm saying with being "antique" is that its been around for so long, its been modified, there has been many wild cat cartridges made off of them that are better options/improved options that are out there now than a 30-06 and 25-06, but the 06's has such a long/great history.

It depends on what the OP wants to do as far as how far he wants to shoot, how much he wants to spend on ammo, if he wants a long action or a short action, ect. The 6.5 is better in some aspects than the 25-06, for longer distances but are very close to each other, the way the case is designed is better, higher bc bullets, rifling should last longer, its a very modern capable cartridge. The 25-06 ammo is available probably every where because it is "antique", cheaper and still widely used. If you want the latest and greatest, which that is what I'm looking into, it would be of the 6.5 or 7mm breed.

Gotcha. It's all good. I've just heard lots of younger folks (in their 20's) at guns stores and at the ranges talking about older cartridges saying something was "old" or "antique" meaning they thought of it as decrepit and incapable of keeping up with the new modern stuff (which is sadly the mindset they have been taught to believe about everything today), not realizing that with new and modern components, and treated to equal opportunities (good brass, proper twists, modern bullets & powders) that it is more than capable of handling its own against all the newer more modern cartridges. Every cartridge has its place, but some seem to think that just because something is old, it's useless, and because something else is new, it must automatically be lightyears better than the old cartridge.

 

[RT2506]

The OP stated that he wanted to make a LIGHT WEIGHT hunting rifle. Bottom line. 25-06 needs a long action and at least 26" of barrel to do it's thing. 6.5 CM works in short action and 22/24" barrel are the norm. Weight wise 6.5 CM wins. I have killed at least a couple hundred deer with a 25-06 doing crop damage control and inside 450 yards it is really hard to beat, and yes most of the time with the proper bullet it is BANG FLOP. Having said that any 6.5 with the proper bullet will do the same thing and when it gets over 300 yards the 6.5 starts to out perform the 25-06 because of better ballistic bullets.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I'm gonna throw some more at this.

The 6.5 Creed is a small cartridge. The 25-06 is a medium cartridge. The 25-06 has substantially more horsepower. It is however a smaller caliber so it lacks the displacement of the 26 cal. I am not going to spend the time to run a bunch of balistic numbers for both cartridges but if 500y is the benchmark, then the 6.5 Creed can't touch the 25-06. Bullet bc just does not play much of a factor. The Creed can not overcome the 600fps hadicap that it has because it is a small cartidge. Put a fast twist custom barrel on a 25-06 and shoot heavy for cal bullets and the horse race gets a bit closer because they start out at a bit closer muzzle vel. The Creed will still have a disadvantage in the hp dept and probably never be able to make it up. The 26 cal bullet will have a little better bc due to being heavier and at some point wayyyyy down range would catch it. Way beyond any practical range.

Hope this helps
Steve

 

[Michael O'Connor]

Deer won't know the difference.

You have to beat the wind with higher velocity and lower B.C. .257" bullets. .264" bullets beat the 1/4 Bore in all ways like the 7mm beats 308 in wind by recoil. Granted, we are talking about hunting rifles. Recoil actually is a component of accuracy with lighter rifles. The 6.5 and 7mm are the greatest in their power realm for long range. It also depends if you want to spend extra money for a custom high B.C. bullet. I have not seen any manufacturer come out with a high B.C. .257" or .277" bullet that can compare ballistically better than 6.5 or 7mm bullets. 308 is not that favorable either because of incumbent recoil over the 7mm in North American game animals. I wouldn't hesitate to use a 30 Nosler or 300 RUM on Elk or Moose long-range; I just don't care for the recoil in a lightweight type rifle anymore.

 

[Michael O'Connor]

Yes, but when you only count cylinder numbers instead of actual displacement and HP numbers, is where most folks screw up. Prime example... 6.7 Powerstroke has 8 cylinders, with only .8375 L of displacement per cylinder... 6.7 Cummins has 6 cylinders, and has 1.1167 L of displacement per cylinder.

And while the 6.7 PowerChoke V8 might produce more HP and turn higher RPM's, the old straight-6 Cummins will produce nearly a 1:2 HP to TQ ratio when you start building performance, and will out-pull the PowerChoke and the Durasmack any day of the week.

As for V6 vs. V8, I am an all-American V8 guy when it comes to muscle cars and sportscars. To me personally, it's V8 or nothing. But, a funny one is comparing the 2010 Mustang GT 4.6L V8 (315 HP) to the 2011 Mustang V6 (305 HP)... The new naturally-aspirated V6 they put into the 2011 models had 10 less horsepower, than the previous year's 4.6L V8. In a scenario like this, the 2011 V6 car, with the extra weight savings and only 10 less HP, might actually beat the 2010 V8 car...

But I will put it in a V8 to V8 comparison... Chevy guys love to talk about how much HP the new 2018 6.2L Camaro produces...455 HP. Well, the new 2018 Mustang has a tiny little 5.0L V8 that produces about 5 MORE HP in stock form...460 HP. And it ****ES Chevy supporters off, because they're getting their asses handed to them by a car with a much smaller motor. The Chevy may produce more torque, but torque doesn't win drag races. It's all about the efficiency and HP numbers the motor produces, and not running out of RPM's before tripping the beam, and having your car properly setup.

That's why I laugh when folks still think like it's 1940 when they talk about cartridges, and think that just by stuffing crap-tons of powder behind something makes it better. There is a balance, and it has to be found, or else you're cheating yourself either too much, or too little.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

You have to beat the wind with higher velocity and lower B.C. .257" bullets. .264" bullets beat the 1/4 Bore in all ways like the 7mm beats 308 in wind by recoil. Granted, we are talking about hunting rifles. Recoil actually is a component of accuracy with lighter rifles. The 6.5 and 7mm are the greatest in their power realm for long range. It also depends if you want to spend extra money for a custom high B.C. bullet. I have not seen any manufacturer come out with a high B.C. .257" or .277" bullet that can compare ballistically better than 6.5 or 7mm bullets. 308 is not that favorable either because of incumbent recoil over the 7mm in North American game animals. I wouldn't hesitate to use a 30 Nosler or 300 RUM on Elk or Moose long-range; I just don't care for the recoil in a lightweight type rifle anymore.

At what yardage does the Creed beat the 25-06 in a significant way for drop and drift?

Steve

 

[Buck Buster]

I never meant being "antique" was a bad thing. I own a 30-06 and I think its antique because it WAS made in 1906, the 25-06 is not far behind, kind of makes me feel I have a piece of history but both are great rounds. All I'm saying with being "antique" is that its been around for so long, its been modified, there has been many wild cat cartridges made off of them that are better options/improved options that are out there now than a 30-06 and 25-06, but the 06's has such a long/great history.

It depends on what the OP wants to do as far as how far he wants to shoot, how much he wants to spend on ammo, if he wants a long action or a short action, ect. The 6.5 is better in some aspects than the 25-06, for longer distances but are very close to each other, the way the case is designed is better, higher bc bullets, rifling should last longer, its a very modern capable cartridge. The 25-06 ammo is available probably every where because it is "antique", cheaper and still widely used. If you want the latest and greatest, which that is what I'm looking into, it would be of the 6.5 or 7mm breed.

The 30-06 was the most accurate 1000 yard rifle at camp Perry for many years. And as bucking the wind in a long range shot I will go with a 30 cal. magnum over anything that shoots a smaller diameter bullet, just what I have seen at Bodines PA Original 1000 yard bench rest club during a windy shoot. If I had a 50 cal. that might be an option. Good luck hunting and shooting in 2018 and be safe.

 

[Michael O'Connor]

At what yardage does the Creed beat the 25-06 in a significant way for drop and drift?

Steve

Sorry, I don't even do windage math for 25 caliber bullets, and I don't see an efficient case for the .625 B.C. Nosler ABLR 270. I quit on magnum cases.

 

[Michael O'Connor]

At what yardage does the Creed beat the 25-06 in a significant way for drop and drift?

Steve

I don't do math on 25 caliber bullets. I just look at "purported" B.C. anymore, until I see custom bulletsmiths come out with a hybrid rebated boat tail in that caliber.