450 Bushmaster Vs 45 Raptor

[J E Custom]

I went the same route as most, I chose the 450 Bushmaster because it was at the top of the AR 15 power potential. It has done everything I have ask of it, and for hogs, it drops them like my 7 STW at 450 ranges.

Wanting a more powerful pistol for the same uses, I purchased a 460 S&W. it is an amazing pistol and does it's job equally well. Never being satisfied (Most on this site have the same affliction) I decided to build a bolt action rifle for the 460 round and was I amazed and the velocity increase. In the 22" barrel using the 200 grain Hornady factory load, It chronograph's at 2900+ ft/sec. the downside is that 200+ yards the 200 grain FTX is not stable and accuracy is poor. to boost this I have loaded some of the 250 grain FTX 450 bushmaster bullets and trying to find some 451 or 452 diameter bullets 275 to 300 grain for it.

I can use rifle bullets in the 460 rifle because it can reach rifle velocities as long as I can find the right diameter bullets. High BC's and large pistol bullets don't have a connection so range is always limited. In order to get decent Bullet BC's, in my 45-120 sharps I use a 628 grain posnell hard cast bullet for 600+ yard accuracy. so I am thinking about making a mold and casting my own 460 bullets if I cant find a good jacketed bullet 300+ grains.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Wolf76]

I went the same route as most, I chose the 450 Bushmaster because it was at the top of the AR 15 power potential. It has done everything I have ask of it, and for hogs, it drops them like my 7 STW at 450 ranges.

Wanting a more powerful pistol for the same uses, I purchased a 460 S&W. it is an amazing pistol and does it's job equally well. Never being satisfied (Most on this site have the same affliction) I decided to build a bolt action rifle for the 460 round and was I amazed and the velocity increase. In the 22" barrel using the 200 grain Hornady factory load, It chronograph's at 2900+ ft/sec. the downside is that 200+ yards the 200 grain FTX is not stable and accuracy is poor. to boost this I have loaded some of the 250 grain FTX 450 bushmaster bullets and trying to find some 451 or 452 diameter bullets 275 to 300 grain for it.

I can use rifle bullets in the 460 rifle because it can reach rifle velocities as long as I can find the right diameter bullets. High BC's and large pistol bullets don't have a connection so range is always limited. In order to get decent Bullet BC's, in my 45-120 sharps I use a 628 grain posnell hard cast bullet for 600+ yard accuracy. so I am thinking about making a mold and casting my own 460 bullets if I cant find a good jacketed bullet 300+ grains.

J E CUSTOM

This should help you.
https://parker-productions-llc.myshopify.com

 

[VLD Pilot]

The raptor originated about 5 years ago obviously from the 460 S&W mag cartridge. Designed for the AR platform as you know evolved to bolt guns. In 5 years the bullet selection has changed some. No there is not any "good" high bc bullets for this cartridge or caliber. Let's face it, these 45s are 300-400 yard guns a very best. I guess what I'm saying is, at 300 yards, we are keeping the bushmaster in 4" groups at every bench session. My goal was build a 300 yard Ohio deer rifle that meets the laws requirement. The Raptor easily fits that bill. Even with the 200 XPB.

 

[J E Custom]

This should help you.
https://parker-productions-llc.myshopify.com

That looks great !!! thanks

They may have what I need.

J E CUSTOM

 

[engineer40]

I went the same route as most, I chose the 450 Bushmaster because it was at the top of the AR 15 power potential. It has done everything I have ask of it, and for hogs, it drops them like my 7 STW at 450 ranges.

Wanting a more powerful pistol for the same uses, I purchased a 460 S&W. it is an amazing pistol and does it's job equally well. Never being satisfied (Most on this site have the same affliction) I decided to build a bolt action rifle for the 460 round and was I amazed and the velocity increase. In the 22" barrel using the 200 grain Hornady factory load, It chronograph's at 2900+ ft/sec. the downside is that 200+ yards the 200 grain FTX is not stable and accuracy is poor. to boost this I have loaded some of the 250 grain FTX 450 bushmaster bullets and trying to find some 451 or 452 diameter bullets 275 to 300 grain for it.

I can use rifle bullets in the 460 rifle because it can reach rifle velocities as long as I can find the right diameter bullets. High BC's and large pistol bullets don't have a connection so range is always limited. In order to get decent Bullet BC's, in my 45-120 sharps I use a 628 grain posnell hard cast bullet for 600+ yard accuracy. so I am thinking about making a mold and casting my own 460 bullets if I cant find a good jacketed bullet 300+ grains.

J E CUSTOM

I've used these 300gr bullets in my 460SW rifle and they did good. Might be worth a try if you can find some?
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...t-45-caliber-452-diameter-300-grain-box-of-50

If you could resize a .458 bullet down to .452 there are better lead cast options without going custom mold. I know the Lee 500gr .458 has a BC of .443. I don't know if my 460SW Mag rifle would have the twist rate to stabilize a bullet that heavy. My 460SW mag rifle is a TC Encore Pro Hunter Katahdin. It's not very accurate so I'm personally not going to put in any additional effort with it.

As a side note for anyone with a 450BM, I found cheap 45acp bullets that hold up to 450BM pressures and velocity. I use these in my 450BM plinking loads and they work great. POI is off from the normal 250gr Hornady ammo, but nothing is perfect I guess. At least these bullets are only around 16 cents a piece and they hold together, whereas most 45acp bullets to do when shot from a 450BM.
https://www.evergladesammo.com/bullets/handgun-bullets/45-230gr-jhp-bullets.html

 

[Wolf76]

The raptor originated about 5 years ago obviously from the 460 S&W mag cartridge. Designed for the AR platform as you know evolved to bolt guns. In 5 years the bullet selection has changed some. No there is not any "good" high bc bullets for this cartridge or caliber. Let's face it, these 45s are 300-400 yard guns a very best. I guess what I'm saying is, at 300 yards, we are keeping the bushmaster in 4" groups at every bench session. My goal was build a 300 yard Ohio deer rifle that meets the laws requirement. The Raptor easily fits that bill. Even with the 200 XPB.

200 xpb has a minimum velocity of 1700 fps according to Barnes. 1400 for the 275.
Attached is the 200 xpb chart assuming 2900 fps start, .16 bc, 50 degrees.

Still think 300 is wise?

 

[Earnhardt]

delete

 

[VLD Pilot]

200 xpb has a minimum velocity of 1700 fps according to Barnes. 1400 for the 275.
Attached is the 200 xpb chart assuming 2900 fps start, .16 bc, 50 degrees.

Still think 300 is wise?

Yes I definitely know it's performance on deer out to 288 yards. The land owner I lease from in Ohio shot 3 deer out to almost 300 yards with that 200 grain bullet. Not starting out at 2900 fps and performed very well. BC doesn't really have an impact on bullets drop until beyond the ranges we're talking about here. These are pistol bullets and pistol bullets are designed to perform at much slower speeds than rifle bullets.

 

[Wolf76]

Yes I definitely know it's performance on deer out to 288 yards. The land owner I lease from in Ohio shot 3 deer out to almost 300 yards with that 200 grain bullet. Not starting out at 2900 fps and performed very well. BC doesn't really have an impact on bullets drop until beyond the ranges we're talking about here. These are pistol bullets and pistol bullets are designed to perform at much slower speeds than rifle bullets.

This is my last post. I called barnes and discussed this bullet(200gr xpb) with the technician. Minimum speed for any expansion is 1700 fps as referenced in my previous post. So at 300 yards you are 200 fps(probably more)below the minimum. Not what I'd call ethical, but as my friend says "play stupid games... win stupid prizes".
And the BC absolutely matters in this case because its the reason the bullet starts at 2900 fps and is below 1500 @300. 2-3 hundred fps is normal velocity loss per 100 yards with many rifles. With a 100 yard zero, there is 14" of drop between 2/3 hundred.
Really at a loss for words. You either don't understand physics or are willfully ignoring the facts.

 

[VLD Pilot]

This is my last post. I called barnes and discussed this bullet(200gr xpb) with the technician. Minimum speed for any expansion is 1700 fps as referenced in my previous post. So at 300 yards you are 200 fps(probably more)below the minimum. Not what I'd call ethical, but as my friend says "play stupid games... win stupid prizes".
And the BC absolutely matters in this case because its the reason the bullet starts at 2900 fps and is below 1500 @300. 2-3 hundred fps is normal velocity loss per 100 yards with many rifles. With a 100 yard zero, there is 14" of drop between 2/3 hundred.
Really at a loss for words. You either don't understand physics or are willfully ignoring the facts.

No, actually I've killed many deer with pistols out to 100 yards with velocities of less than 1000 fps at impact. You can read all you want. Until you experience it First hand, I'll stick with my facts and experience. People also SAY using match bullets for hunting is unethical. I say BS. I've killed dozens with them. Your opinions are simply that, not fact.

 

[J E Custom]

I also found some bullets for the 454 Casull in the 300 grain range that are made for it and should hold up at distance. They are also bonded.

There are even heavier bullets, but the 250 to 300 grain seam to be the optimum weight is the 460 rifle.

I have shot the 300s in my Casull pistol and liked them for hinting but accuracy was best with the 265s.

The 460 pistol likes all weights, but the rifle does better (More at 200+ yards) using the 250 and 300 grain bullets. So I am looking for down range performance in the rifle 460.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Thebear_78]

I went with the 450 bushmaster. I wanted to stay in the AR15 receiver and I think the bullets in the .452 diameter are more tailer made for the velocities you get in the AR platform.

I'm shooting 250gr Hornady FXT and 275gr TSX. Both loads will work with the same POA. The 275 shoots just a bit higher than the 250.

I'm looking forward to trying it out on some spring bear over bait. I think the 275gr Barnes is going to make a great backup and camp gun load.

 

[handgunner454]

It's interesting to me that you have a 450 Bushmaster and you still choose to hunt with your NEF/H&R single shot 20 gauge. Can I ask your reasoning?

I'm asking because I've also been considering a TC Encore in 460 S&W (which is ballistically identical to the 45 Raptor). The main reason I've not been as interested in the TC option is because it's as heavy as the DPMS G2 rifles, so why not have a repeater?

Hello
I have a custom made Encore by MGM, absolutely a fantastic shooter. They recommend the 450 over the 460 because it is more accurate out of the Encore platform. Had a Smith 460, it was the most accurate handgun I have ever shot. Smith achieved that by using barrels from Lother/Walther with a gain twist. The barrel starts out with no twist to 1/100. I had an older 460 pistol barrel in the Encore when it first came out. TC had all kinds of issues with it. I called and talked to their custom shop manager, Roland. He advise me they had accuracy issues because of the bullet hitting the rifling was getting chewed up. I sent my barrel back and they replaced it for me with a diff caliber. I have used the Bushy here in Southern Mi since they have allowed it. Have not lost a deer and most go right down. I have taken 7 so far and have never looked back. My son is using the Bushy in his AR.

 

[handgunner454]

Here she is