450 Bushmaster Vs 45 Raptor

[engineer40]

I still believe that someday a 450 Bushmaster or 45 Raptor will be in my future.

But for now, I picked up this little baby yesterday! 460S&W Magnum!

Well I should say that I paid for it yesterday... it is on Backorder for a few weeks. As long as I get it with plenty of time to sight it in and find an accurate load before hunting season it's all good!

Cabela's did have the same model in 45-70 though so I was able to handle one in person. Sweet rifle! Only 5.8 pounds if I remember correctly. I'm sure that's why it comes from the factory already ported!

The OAL of the rifle is shorter than most bolt action rifles you'll see. But it has a 25 inch barrel so I should get some great velocities!

I was reading some this morning and all I have to say is Wow... what some hand loaders are doing with this cartridge is amazing. I'm talking well over 4,000ft lbs of energy amazing (in a rifle not in a handgun length barrel).

And speaking of reloading for it... At over $3 per round for most of the ammo, I only ordered 2 boxes to get some brass!



Oh... and did I mention I actually got it for free? Strange thing, my company has some kind of online "rewards" points system. You earn points for being awesome I guess (at least that is my story to you all ). Well I had enough points and Cabela's was one of the retailers I could use the points at!

I've talked myself into loving this little single shot before I even have it. I hope it's more accurate than my 870 with rifled barrel, or I'll be a bit heartbroken.

 

[Wolf76]

Keep in mind the velocity you'll be pushing. Must bullets will fragment all to heck at 460 speeds. Xtp mags and Barnes xpb are where it's at.

 

[snox801]

The 460 is perfect for shotgun zone. Just don't follow some of those handloaders. I have seen more than one claim great fps only to see they have gone so far as to create a weird crease I. The brass just above the base with all other pressure signs being seen. Should be an awsome gun and should for sure beat out your 870 for accuracy. Though that's not that hard to do. At least mine wasn't.

 

[engineer40]

Keep in mind the velocity you'll be pushing. Must bullets will fragment all to heck at 460 speeds. Xtp mags and Barnes xpb are where it's at.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Have you done any research on the best BC bullets available for the .452 caliber? The best one I've seen so far was only like .214 I think for G1 BC. You would think with the popularity of the 450 Bushmaster and 460 Magnum (and 45 Raptor) etc... that someone would be putting some R&D into a somewhat slippery lower drag bullet. If we could get into the .3's+ it seems like that would seriously open the doors on hunting longer ranges for us in the restricted areas. I can think of a couple corn and soy bean fields I'd like to try my hand at if some better bullets were available.

(I do understand that the longer higher BC bullets would not work with the revolvers that the 460 round was originally designed for. It still seems like the market would be there for the bullets because of the states like MI, IN, OH).

 

[engineer40]

The 460 is perfect for shotgun zone. Just don't follow some of those handloaders. I have seen more than one claim great fps only to see they have gone so far as to create a weird crease I. The brass just above the base with all other pressure signs being seen. Should be an awsome gun and should for sure beat out your 870 for accuracy. Though that's not that hard to do. At least mine wasn't.

Yeah! I'm curious on how this thing is going to shoot for sure!

A cartridge that delivers 1000ft lbs of muzzle energy more than a 12 gauge slug, and in a rifle that weighs 3lbs less than my 870 does... I'm going to have to be careful this thing doesn't knock me out of the tree when I pull the trigger! (I do think that is why it comes with a brake from the factory).

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

Thanks for the suggestions!

Have you done any research on the best BC bullets available for the .452 caliber? The best one I've seen so far was only like .214 I think for G1 BC. You would think with the popularity of the 450 Bushmaster and 460 Magnum (and 45 Raptor) etc... that someone would be putting some R&D into a somewhat slippery lower drag bullet. If we could get into the .3's+ it seems like that would seriously open the doors on hunting longer ranges for us in the restricted areas. I can think of a couple corn and soy bean fields I'd like to try my hand at if some better bullets were available.

(I do understand that the longer higher BC bullets would not work with the revolvers that the 460 round was originally designed for. It still seems like the market would be there for the bullets because of the states like MI, IN, OH).

Talk to hammer bullets, me and snox801 have been bouncing some ideas around with Brian for a sleeker, faster and more lethal 300gr class bullet for our socom's. I can see a round with a longer nose and a boat tail. That's one thing I want is a little more nose length and a more aggressive boat tail over what the TTSX has. Longer nose and boat tail might shorten up the bearing surface so even it the B.C isn't increased a whole lot at least some gains in velocity might be had.

 

[engineer40]

Talk to hammer bullets, me and snox801 have been bouncing some ideas around with Brian for a sleeker, faster and more lethal 300gr class bullet for our socom's. I can see a round with a longer nose and a boat tail. That's one thing I want is a little more nose length and a more aggressive boat tail over what the TTSX has. Longer nose and boat tail might shorten up the bearing surface so even it the B.C isn't increased a whole lot at least some gains in velocity might be had.

Thanks!

I would prefer to be able to buy jacketed bullets ready to load... However I did find this bullet mold.
Lyman Products Your Primary Source for Reloading Equipment
The stated BC is .477, which is WAY better than anything else I've seen. I think guys are using the bullets mostly for rifles like the 458 Win Mag.

The 460SW, 450 Bushmaster, and the 45 Raptor use .452 bullets. But I could size the .458 bullets down in a couple steps. Trying to decide if it's worth the hassle to even try. My dad has all of the equipment to pour bullets.

Sure would be nice to have a high BC bullet available. We could make use of all that muzzle energy further down range.

 

[engineer40]

Yes, put 4 of them together. Savage model 16 stainless, satern barrel, and some patience. There were a few issues. First was the magazine. The bullets wanted to dip before feeding because this magazine started off as a 243. A spring fixed that. The feeding was another issue. I changed the ramp angle with my dremel and it's much better. There were some other small things, but they're all good now.My gun is a little heavy, but it's because the barrel wasn't contoured(we were in a hurry to get guns built). I'm getting it fluted after this season and should remove about 1#. This is my third season and have retired my smokeless muzzleloader to just the bp season. My suggestion is to use a 20" barrel because it gets you some serious extra velocity and allows some different powders. Btw h110, enforcer, and accurate#9 have been the best.
Contact satern barrels if you go this route.

Wolf76... I just realized that I'm fairly sure I spoke with you actually at Cabela's last week? Random encounter aey?

So I didn't get the CVA. Between the Sunday that I ordered it and that Wednesday, CVA stopped making them. If you remember from our conversation I actually picked up a Encore Pro Hunter Katahdin in 460 Mag instead of that CVA.


And for everyone else I was wrong with one of my posts earlier. TC's website says the Pro Hunter Katahdin's are like 7lbs. But they are NOT. I read another review that said his was 4.5lbs. When I weighed mine it was barely over 4lbs. It's a handy, light, short boom stick for sure.

 

[AL1]

Thanks for the suggestions!

Have you done any research on the best BC bullets available for the .452 caliber? The best one I've seen so far was only like .214 I think for G1 BC. You would think with the popularity of the 450 Bushmaster and 460 Magnum (and 45 Raptor) etc... that someone would be putting some R&D into a somewhat slippery lower drag bullet. If we could get into the .3's+ it seems like that would seriously open the doors on hunting longer ranges for us in the restricted areas. I can think of a couple corn and soy bean fields I'd like to try my hand at if some better bullets were available.

(I do understand that the longer higher BC bullets would not work with the revolvers that the 460 round was originally designed for. It still seems like the market would be there for the bullets because of the states like MI, IN, OH).

not cheap, but they have a high BC.

Match Hunter Muzzleloader Bullets

 

[engineer40]

Thanks AL1... and you are right, those are not cheap. They are interesting though!


So an update for everyone. My TC Encore Pro Hunter in 460S&W Mag is at Pierce Engineering right now getting the barrel threaded for a muzzle brake. Before I mailed the barrel off, when I tested at the range the rifle was not impressive for accuracy. Doing some reading it appears the TC fan club guys have a handful of things they almost always do to improve accuracy. I'm going to try a few of them and see what happens. In addition to trying the rifle tweaks, now I also have 4 different bullets to test in my reloads to see if the rifle likes one of these better.

And since I have all of these different types of .452 bullets on my reloading bench and a rifle that is so far, not accurate... I ordered a 450 Bushmaster upper last night also.

My plan is to shoot both and try hunting with both this fall and see what one I like the best. If one reigns supreme in accuracy or usability, the other one will get sold. If I end up liking both of them, I will probably keep both.


Just for fun over the weekend I took a few rifles to the range that I haven't shot in a while; 30-06 semi auto, 270 Win bolt action, and a sporterized 303 Lee Enfield. It was a real good time and all 3 are relatively accurate without even trying hard. Reminded me how much I wish I could just use a normal centerfire rifle for deer hunting in lower Michigan.

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

What sort of accuracy are you getting?

 

[engineer40]

What sort of accuracy are you getting?

Freakin 6 inches at 100 yards with factory Hornady ammo. That's pathetic. But now I have some brass I can reload.

The good news is the horizontal spread is barely an inch. Well I think that's good news. I'm hoping that means whatever is wrong that's causing the verticle spread can be fixed and it's not a bunch of different things wrong with the rifle.

Any suggestions?

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

Wow that's awful

 

[AL1]

Freakin 6 inches at 100 yards with factory Hornady ammo. That's pathetic. But now I have some brass I can reload.

The good news is the horizontal spread is barely an inch. Well I think that's good news. I'm hoping that means whatever is wrong that's causing the verticle spread can be fixed and it's not a bunch of different things wrong with the rifle.

Any suggestions?

for me, anytime I had vertical stringing with my Encores, usually had to do with the buttstock moving on the bags freely. Been using a Bulls Bag last couple years and don't have near the problems with the big boomers.