450 Bushmaster Vs 45 Raptor

[engineer40]

Wow that's awful

for me, anytime I had vertical stringing with my Encores, usually had to do with the buttstock moving on the bags freely. Been using a Bulls Bag last couple years and don't have near the problems with the big boomers.

I ran up to the range for a couple minutes last night. It was already dark so I just balanced a flashlight on a log near the target. Even with the suboptimal lighting arrangement, my reloads were 2 inches at 100 yards. So I think it was just that factory Hornady ammo that was causing the vertical stringing. Nothing against Hornady, I'm sure they produce the ammo to work the best in 460 Mag revolvers, not single shot rifles.

I now have high hopes for accuracy with this rifle. I had never loaded for a magnum straight walled handgun cartridge before. I still have 2 additional powders to test and 2 more kinds of bullets to test. So either I got super lucky, or I still have the opportunity to improve accuracy. Plus I really have no idea what I'm doing with crimp strengths yet and plan to test both crimp strength and seating depth still.

 

[TheDerkster]

I looked at a 45 raptor while I was putting a parts list together for my 6.5 CM AR10 and decided it was the best option. When it comes down to it, I'll still want to reload and buying factory is never an option unless you wanna pay high prices and not maintain the same load your gun was tuned for.

I still want to build one, but I'm buying too much other stuff and working to much to justify building one just so I can say I have one. I basically wanted a round that I could load massive bullets in if I wanted and run them subsonic. Although that big of a bullet would kill my shoulder.

I think they also are 45 RIFLE caliber. 45 pistol is different nominal diameter. Same with 50 cals. Basically wanted to be able to use 45 cal rifle bullets

 

[engineer40]

I think they also are 45 RIFLE caliber. 45 pistol is different nominal diameter. Same with 50 cals. Basically wanted to be able to use 45 cal rifle bullets

Hey Derkster. All 3 (450 Bushmaster, 45 Raptor, and 460 S&W Magnum) use .452 caliber pistol bullets. I've also noticed that 45 caliber muzzle loader bullets are .452 and have tried them in my 460 S&W Mag rifle.

45-70, 458 SOCOM, 458 Win Mag, etc all use the .458 rifle bullets.


Just to update this thread in general, I still own both the TC Encore in 460 S&W Mag and the 450 Bushmaster. The 450 BM is much more consistent and easier to find accurate ammo for. The TC in 460 is very picky with ammo and even frustrating at times.

But I do love how lightweight and nimble that TC Encore is. I had 2 inches cut off the barrel and had a brake installed so now the recoil is fine. I purchased the 460 S&W Mag as a hunting rifle and thought I probably wouldn't use it much outside of hunting season. But the opposite ended up being true. I grab it almost anytime I'm going to the range. It is pretty much the most fun to shoot free hand at jugs of water. Makes a HUGE boom and the water jugs freakin blow up like no other when using the 200gr Hornady bullets. It is honestly impressive.

At this point I plan to keep both my 450 BM and my 460 S&W Mag rifles. Although I added another "potential" firearm to my hunting arsenal. I haven't actually decided if I'm going to try it on whitetail or not yet. It's a Glock 40 MOS. It's 10mm with a 6 inch barrel and a Burris FF3 red dot.

 

[VLD Pilot]

By all accounts the 45 Raptor beats the 450 Bushmaster in performance. At 100 yards, the 45 Raptor has about 700ft lbs of energy over the 450 Bushmaster still.

I think the main draw to the 450 Bushmaster is it's convenience. I can get an upper for $550 and slap it on a lower I already have.

But for some reason I'm so stuck on the idea of getting a DPMS G2 and getting a 45 Raptor barrel put on it!

Both would be more accurate than the shotguns I currently use for deer hunting in the restricted areas of Michigan.

Anybody that lives in the areas of the midwest that restrict to straight walled cartridges want to chime in on this one? Thanks!

I'm a michigander also but do not live in the southern zone. I hunt Ohio and wanted a 45 raptor for Ohio. Just spoke to a fella that built one or had it built. In the end due to the ES of the round, he wound up at around 2250 fps with the 250s. Accuracy was 1.5" at 300 yards but with rainbow like trajectory. Gotta think ballistics aren't great at 300 yards starting out at 2250. The 450 BM factory ammo is faster than that with low ES. Rethinking my decision on the build. Fast is great but accuracy is greater.

 

[snox801]

Es is more a product of Bullets and powder. So you should be able to end much better than him. If you started with a similar powder to the bushmaster and try hammer or cutting edge Bullets. For shorter ranges that you get FPS is king
This is coming from a guy who has a bushmaster. Also look look at the new Winchester 350 I believe it's called

 

[snox801]

Any of them will be a rainbow. No way around it. You are really pushing the envelope at 300 yards no matter what the internet say. I've done some long range work with these thumpers and I have to say I can't believe half the stories I here. Had a guy tell me he shot a deer at something like 480 yards same scope. I said him I couldn't even get enough now to hit that with mine. So I asked what zero he had and if he dieled up. He said 100 yard zero and used the bdc. Knew right then he was full of it.
Anyhow I would say find the round that will open at the lowest FPS because that's what you will need. It's big enough it's gonna leave a hole.

 

[VLD Pilot]

Hey Derkster. All 3 (450 Bushmaster, 45 Raptor, and 460 S&W Magnum) use .452 caliber pistol bullets. I've also noticed that 45 caliber muzzle loader bullets are .452 and have tried them in my 460 S&W Mag rifle.

45-70, 458 SOCOM, 458 Win Mag, etc all use the .458 rifle bullets.


Just to update this thread in general, I still own both the TC Encore in 460 S&W Mag and the 450 Bushmaster. The 450 BM is much more consistent and easier to find accurate ammo for. The TC in 460 is very picky with ammo and even frustrating at times.

But I do love how lightweight and nimble that TC Encore is. I had 2 inches cut off the barrel and had a brake installed so now the recoil is fine. I purchased the 460 S&W Mag as a hunting rifle and thought I probably wouldn't use it much outside of hunting season. But the opposite ended up being true. I grab it almost anytime I'm going to the range. It is pretty much the most fun to shoot free hand at jugs of water. Makes a HUGE boom and the water jugs freakin blow up like no other when using the 200gr Hornady bullets. It is honestly impressive.

At this point I plan to keep both my 450 BM and my 460 S&W Mag rifles. Although I added another "potential" firearm to my hunting arsenal. I haven't actually decided if I'm going to try it on whitetail or not yet. It's a Glock 40 MOS. It's 10mm with a 6 inch barrel and a Burris FF3 red dot.

Off topic sorry but on the 10mm subject. To answer your question, yes the 10mm is capable of killing a deer very easily. Practice alot with it !!! My 6" G20 has night sights and No MOS. I'm capable of good accuracy to about 40-50 yards off a rest. Good meaning 4-5" groups. I use 180 Underwood or Buffalo bore ammo. Shoot what your gun likes. I have an after market KKM barrel and it does well with all ammo. Even shoots the 200/220 hardcast stuff great. Wouldn't recommend a 50 yard shot but 30 is more realistic. Good luck

 

[VLD Pilot]

Es is more a product of Bullets and powder. So you should be able to end much better than him. If you started with a similar powder to the bushmaster and try hammer or cutting edge Bullets. For shorter ranges that you get FPS is king
This is coming from a guy who has a bushmaster. Also look look at the new Winchester 350 I believe it's called

Appreciate the info. I'm not super concerned about 400 yard white tail shots in Ohio. More like 200-250 max but want the best performance at that range. I'll do some more research talking to current raptor guys and listen to them little. I'd be happy buying factory ammo for a bushmaster if the numbers are close. I load too many cartridges right now so adding another isn't that appealing to me. Thanks.

 

[snox801]

Yes I think the numbers are close enough to not justify the extra work. Especially if the accutips are as good out of the bushmaster as they are out of the 20 gauges. For your 250 max would be doable with the 450 with factory ammo. Just need to find your drops.
Also check out that new .350 it's supposed to be a great round for that area. I just don't know enough about it to voice a good opinion and it may end up just being marketing. Worth a look.

 

[VLD Pilot]

Yes I think the numbers are close enough to not justify the extra work. Especially if the accutips are as good out of the bushmaster as they are out of the 20 gauges. For your 250 max would be doable with the 450 with factory ammo. Just need to find your drops.
Also check out that new .350 it's supposed to be a great round for that area. I just don't know enough about it to voice a good opinion and it may end up just being marketing. Worth a look.

I just check it out. Pretty light bullets but really low recoil. Around 2300 fps/1900 ft lbs. I'd say maybe a 200 yard round if keeping impact velocities high enough to open bullets properly. Be a great little round tho. Thanks for the heads up on it. Cool stuff

 

[engineer40]

I'm a michigander also but do not live in the southern zone. I hunt Ohio and wanted a 45 raptor for Ohio. Just spoke to a fella that built one or had it built. In the end due to the ES of the round, he wound up at around 2250 fps with the 250s. Accuracy was 1.5" at 300 yards but with rainbow like trajectory. Gotta think ballistics aren't great at 300 yards starting out at 2250. The 450 BM factory ammo is faster than that with low ES. Rethinking my decision on the build. Fast is great but accuracy is greater.

It's been quite a while since I originally posted this. I've grown to adore my 450 Bushmaster. It's my favorite Michigan deer hunting rifle, by a wide margin. My dad got a 450BM in a bolt action. In a bolt action you can load 450BM very hot ifyou want. Pretty far past the book loads. But obviously, use good judgement.

Any of them will be a rainbow. No way around it. You are really pushing the envelope at 300 yards no matter what the internet say. I've done some long range work with these thumpers and I have to say I can't believe half the stories I here. Had a guy tell me he shot a deer at something like 480 yards same scope. I said him I couldn't even get enough now to hit that with mine. So I asked what zero he had and if he dieled up. He said 100 yard zero and used the bdc. Knew right then he was full of it.
Anyhow I would say find the round that will open at the lowest FPS because that's what you will need. It's big enough it's gonna leave a hole.

I use the 300 yard 223 BDC in my scope to shoot the 450BM at 200 yards and it ends up being 1 inch high. That's about perfect for what I need. Haven't tried it further because in the area I hunt, I'd never get a shot that far. But it's loosing steam fast past 200 yards. There are some high end .452 muzzleloading bullets with BC's in the .5xx+ range. In theory if you had an accurate load with one of those, you could potentially push this cartridge out pretty darn far. I just don't have a reason to try... maybe some day.

 

[Wolf76]

You're asking a lot of the 45 cal straight walls. The 45 raptor was designed to be a 200 yard or less gun while providing a 2 moa or better groups. The 200 xpb at 2900 fps is about the best option in the raptor.
The 350 legend doesn't have the energy to make bullets open or cleanly kill deer at the advertised distances. Just look at the 35 Remington or 357 maximum trajectory tables. I'm buying one for my daughter, so it is still a decent option.

 

[VLD Pilot]

You're asking a lot of the 45 cal straight walls. The 45 raptor was designed to be a 200 yard or less gun while providing a 2 moa or better groups. The 200 xpb at 2900 fps is about the best option in the raptor.
The 350 legend doesn't have the energy to make bullets open or cleanly kill deer at the advertised distances. Just look at the 35 Remington or 357 maximum trajectory tables. I'm buying one for my daughter, so it is still a decent option.

The 284 wasn't designed to be anything other than a 200-300 yard cartridge either. With proper bullets, the range for the raptor is well beyond 200 yards

 

[Wolf76]

The 284 wasn't designed to be anything other than a 200-300 yard cartridge either. With proper bullets, the range for the raptor is well beyond 200 yards

Things do change. The laws of physics don't. There isn't enough case capacity to get high bc bullets moving fast enough. You only have about 46ish grs of powder capacity in the raptor (which is the high pressure cartridge). Because in this scenario, one of the following stops the conversation: case capacity, bullet bc, barrel length, peak pressure limitations, and COAL.
45 cal bullets are as streamlined as a brick. Even the parker match hunters barely hit .3-.4 bc if you could move them at 2800 (which you can't even come close). But then you lose case capacity because the bullet is so long. IMO people are trying to get blood out of a rock. If you need more distance, a smokeless muzzleloader is the best option.
Why do you think they set up the straight wall cartridge laws the way they did?
BTW I built and load for 4 Raptors and was probably the first person in Michigan to have one. Might even have the first deer kill with one (in MI). All this is to say I'm well versed in this area.