300 RUM or 7mm with 180 bergers at 3000 fps

[Long Time Long Ranger]

You asked about 180 bergers out of a 7mm remington compared to the 300 RUM. I gave you the realistic numbers and they are accurate. There is no comparison between the two. You said you had decided on the 300 RUM but thought about the 7mm remington. I was confirming that you were right with the 300 RUM because there is absolutely no comparing these two. The 300 RUM is a serious long range hunting cartrdge. The 7mm remington is a mid range hunting cartridge. You are comparing apples to oranges. If that is what you want that is fine. But don't get a 7mm remington because you think it is easier to shoot and think you are getting a long range hunter because you are not. Your rifle builder is being very optimistic telling you the 7mm remington will get 3150 fps with a 168 grain bullet. 3000 fps would be more average. He may have one that may get that and yours may. But the averages are not at that velocity. You are quoting figures near the 7mm-300 wby and 7mm STW which are more powerful than the little 7mm remington by about 200 fps. You say you will not be able to afford to do this again and I am telling you from about 40 years experience you had better do it right this time so you are not dissapointed. With the 300 RUM you have a long range elk rifle and do not need to rebuild. If you are looking for a long range target rifle the 7mm remington will work but the wind will cause you problems more so than some other cartridges that would be a better choice with better barrel life and easier/cheaper to reload.

You must understand I do not care what you or anyone else shoots but I am on here for one purpose and that is for beggining shooters not to get taken in by internet hype and guys spitting out numbers that, although there rifles might do, they are well above the norm for the cartridge. I own two 7mm remingtons and know exactly what they will do. I had a 1000 yard range at my shop for years and know exactly what virtually any common or wildcat cartridge will do on average having seen thousands of rounds shot. I have never seen a 26" barrel 7mm remington shoot a 170 grain bullet 3150 fps without eating up brass or blowing out primer pockets and locking the action down. There are fast ones and it can happen but do not expect it. Maybe he has hit on a powder combo I have not seen or has a wby freebore reamer that has a 7mm remington shooting like a 7mm wby. I don't know but that is optimistic from all the 7mm remingtons I have seen through the years.

 

[pyroducksx3]

Well I do understand that the 7 will have limitations and I appreciate your honest reply's. With the way I have put this project together I feel confident that after I shoot and gain confidence in shooting and also find the need to be able to reach out on elk that I will be able to take the next step up. I meant that Im not sure when I would be able to start from scratch again ie action either custom or blueprinting, bases/rings, high quality stock, scope... the whole project but I will be able to rebarrel this action that has all this already done. I hunt deer mostly and have just recently found the ability to get out and hunt elk hopefully a long weekend every year. Currenly I would be happy to have a 600 yard ability on elk (whick I think the 7 can do). The rest will be Deer or target shooting. I will reply with the stats that this 7 produces. My 7 with a 24" barrel has only gotten 2900 fps so I was surprised to hear the ability to get 3150 as well, guess we will see. Most respectfully and thanks

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

With a lot of target shooting and practice the 300 RUM would not be a good choice for you because of the barrel life issue. You are better to choose one that isn't as hard on barrels. The 300 RUM is a specialty rifle for serious long range hunting and although is extremely accurate is not one to buy for a lot of target shooting. You certainly do not need a 300 RUM for targets and deer and a much smaller cartridge would suit you better.

 

[TMR]

LTLR,

Please don't take offense to this as I respect what you have to say and are a wealth of information on this site.

The new powders of today and barrel advancements have changed what the some of the older cartridges are capable of. For example, if a 7WSM can run a 168 at 3100 in a 26" barrel, which it is easily capable of, then there is no reason that a 7RM can't do the same thing. The WSM does run at higher pressure, but the 7RM has a couple more grains of case capacity and is at a little less pressure. When the 7RM is chambered with the longer VLD's out where they need to be, it turns it into a whole new animal, especially with the new powders out...mainly Retumbo.

The 300RUM is a specialized tool for sure. Using a 210 Berger/300RUM and a 7RM/180 Berger the ballistics are almost identical with the RUM having a few hundred ft/lbs more energy. It does have the edge, but at a cost. There is only one way to build confidence in this sport, which I am sure you will agree. That is to shoot. Practice under field conditions and put in the time. Being limited to one rifle, the 300RUM is definitely not the best choice here. Personally, I would have to rebarrel one 2-3 times a year if it was my only rifle. The 7RM will give guys a chance to shoot alot and build confidence and know EXACTLY what their rifles are capable of. It may be a little light for elk at 1K, but if they know their rifle and are confident in placing the bullet in the right spot, that is what makes the difference. A ****** shot is a ****** shot regardless what the caliber. Elk aren't bullet proof at all. Everything comes down to shot placement and that takes practice. This is a precision sport, plain and simple. If a guy is not confident in their equipement, then honestly, they have no business even pulling the trigger. The ONLY way to gain that confidence to go shoot and proove it to yourselve that you can in fact do it. Yep, the 300RUM does have a slight energy edge over the RM, but it comes at a cost. It takes a longer barrel to perform, more powder, more recoil..... It is still a favorite of mine, but it all comes at a cost. Especially for people that are just getting into the sport and needing that shooting experience.

Guys think they need the biggest cannons out there to do this game and then they think it just comes easily. I am in agreement that if you can handle the horsepower, than use as much as you can control and are comfortable with. In our shooting classes 99% of the people out there don't shoot the big magnums as well as they do a lighter recoiling rifle. They want all the horsepower, but are afraid of the blast, recoil, or whatever it may be. Set them behind a lighter recoiling rifle, and they are hammering the targets at all ranges. I talk to several people a week that think if they get a 300 ultra or 338 Edge that they can shoot 50 rounds a year and be able to kill an elk at 1k or farther. I ask them why they would only shoot that little, and they respond that those big rifles have to much recoil! This just confirms what we have seen in our shooting classes. They are trying to rely on horsepower rather than precision.

Again, I mean no disrespect at all and I hope you didn't take it that way. I am just going off observations as of lately.

 

[coyotezapper]

"They want all the horsepower, but are afraid of the blast, recoil, or whatever it may be. Set them behind a lighter recoiling rifle, and they are hammering the targets at all ranges. I talk to several people a week that think if they get a 300 ultra or 338 Edge that they can shoot 50 rounds a year and be able to kill an elk at 1k or farther. I ask them why they would only shoot that little, and they respond that those big rifles have to much recoil!"


TMR / LTLP,

Great conversation!! I agree with what both of you have said. The only difference I see is in the statement above. Most new long range shooters have not shot anything larger than a .270 or 30-06. I have taken many friends out who have been "shooting my whole life" and they want to start with my 338 Lapua. I start them all out with my 7rem mag with 140 Bergers ( 11 twist barrel ) and then let them work up from there. The ones who have jumped right into the Lapua have ended up intimidated in most cases of larger magnum cartridges. This like anything else this needs to be a step by step learning process. The aninals we hunt deserve that.

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

TMR, I assure you no offense taken. I appreciate your input on the forum. All I ask is to list the loads that are getting that kind of performance so I can increase the capability of my 7mm remingtons and some of my other similar 7mm's. What I listed are actually what my rifles do with their best accuracy loads. I am on here to get the best performance out of my rifles just like anyone else and I have numerous 7mm's. (20+)

 

[glock]

I really like the Berger bullet! I am still amazed at the devastation they do to the animal! Unreal.
I shoot the 168 gr Match Grade VLD Hunting in my 7mm Mag and my 7mm STW

In my 300 Win Mag I also use a 168 gr Match Grade VLD Hunting.

My son shoots a 300 RUM and loves the 185 gr Match Grade VLD Hunting.

I have never been disappointed in Berger bullets

I wish Berger would expand into the 338. The only 338 they have is a 300 gr Match Hybrid OTM Tactical

 

[laserflat]

I too would like to know how yall are getting 180s at 3000.

 

[TMR]

Long throat, 26-27" barrel and Retumbo.

 

[Good]

I think however I'm sticking with the 7 rem mag for now and here is why... Cost!

I thought the same thing but I wanted a true elk caliber. I do have a 7 Rem Mag among other things, but in my opinion, if you want to shoot long range elk, get a long range elk gun. My cost effective solution was to source a takeoff barrel from a Remington XCR in .338 RUM. A good smith here on the forum sent me a low mileage barrel he had laying around for free. I traded him a Picatinny rail for a Win 70 to cover shipping.

My rifle originally started life as a model 700 30-06 so the bolt face needs to be modded- 100$ barrel screwed on- $100, + dies and reloading supplies, I already have Retumbo for the 7 Mag, so that's what I'll use for the 338. I bought an APS Painkiller for $165ish so that will need to be installed also. All told, if this thing shoots a 10" group at 700yds I'll be happy, for an extremely budget build (outside that PK break.) 10" will kill just about anything I care to at that range including Coues Whitetail.

Yes, this will be my carry/canyon rifle at under 9lbs carry weight and I plan to shoot it at everything.

700yds being my max limit for this gun, I plan to pick the bullet that gives me the best ballistics inside that range. LTLR has me sold on those 225s, but I'm still trying to get over the price. I guess shooting practice will have to come mostly from the 308, 7 mag, and 22s.

Another option is to build a Savage. You can do the smith work yourself.

Anyway, good luck, but if you plan to shoot long range elk, I'd go with an elk gun.

 

[pyroducksx3]

At 700 yards I'm at 2000 ft lbs still so I feel confident on elk at that distance. I will however be taking a hard look at what distance I find elk at. If my skills are up to par to take elk past 800 I will skip the 300 ultra and go straight to the 338 ultra or edge. I think the 300 ultra is capable but I'll get better barrel life out of a 338. Looking at using the new Berger 250 or CE 252 or 225 if I step up. I still feel I'm making the right decision. I don't think a 300 ultra or 338 ultra is the best caliber to start off longrange shooting. My longest shot on anything to date is 425. So until I am confident on shooting longrange at targets/rocks then I'll go after game and I think the 7 will work for my intermediate transition into longrange hunting.

 

[Broz]

At 700 yards I'm at 2000 ft lbs still so I feel confident on elk at that distance. I will however be taking a hard look at what distance I find elk at. If my skills are up to par to take elk past 800 I will skip the 300 ultra and go straight to the 338 ultra or edge. I think the 300 ultra is capable but I'll get better barrel life out of a 338. Looking at using the new Berger 250 or CE 252 or 225 if I step up. I still feel I'm making the right decision. I don't think a 300 ultra or 338 ultra is the best caliber to start off longrange shooting. My longest shot on anything to date is 425. So until I am confident on shooting longrange at targets/rocks then I'll go after game and I think the 7 will work for my intermediate transition into longrange hunting.

You sound like you have a plan together that will work. I like that you feel the need to go 338 if going to the longer shots on elk. I also would keep the 700~800 limit for a 7 rem on elk. I don't feel a guy needs 3 rifles either. Choose either a 300 or a 7 for under 1000 and then go 338. I use my 300 win for a carry rifle but limit shots on elk to 1000. If I feel I may be in for a 1000 plus shot on elk I will be packing my 338 LM. What ever you decide on, remember it is just as important to understand how your choosen bullets works best, and at what velocity. You won't find me shooting solids especially at 900 and beyond.

Jeff

 

[FastDam]

If you have to question which one to build, then build the RUM first to be sure you are covered. With the higher section density you will have an advantage over the 7mag on bear. You need an exit wound for tracking

 

[rem300ultra]

meat loss is going to be directly related to shot placement regardless.

What bearpaw said. 180 in 300 ultra will do the job.