300 RUM or 7mm with 180 bergers at 3000 fps

[mjls4me]

i dont think you will get a standard 7mm up to 3000 fps with 180s i shoot both a 7mm and a 300 ultra 168 barnes tsx shoot great in my 300 at 3400 fps and shot slam thru a 10 inch oak at 650 yds about the 7mm even if its an ultra mag i think you may have pressure issues if you get a 180 that fast the you will have a rate of twist issue if you ever want to shoot a lighter bullet i wouldnt go any heavier than 168 in 7mm

 

[etisll40]

Pyro, you are asking all the right questions. I think the 160 grain class is all you need for what you are talking about. I've read a number of people using the 177 Catturuccio (spelling?) bullets running at 3025-75 and they are a thumper. One guy took a 1200 pound brown bear down at around 300 yards. I like the STW. The 300 class of bullets don't have as a high a BC as the 160-180 class 7mm. The BC will give you more accuracy and therefor more knockout at the other end.

Food for thought.

 

[pyroducksx3]

The smith I am going to use has a ton of experience with his reamer and is very confident that I would reach 3000 fps with the 180 bergers, unless I'm miss quoting him he has built many rifles that ran this. He is liking the 168 bergers more and more though and I agree. Running the numbers in bullet flight fte the 168 give up nothing to the 180 and for that matter are within like 50-60 ft-lbs of a 300 win mag using 210 bergers at 900 yards. I'm going to run 168 bergers in this

 

[Airgunner7]

Did not read whole post but, If someone has not said it, I feel it is all about your ability to endure pain. It takes 30-40 shots before a bruise forms on my shoulder with my 7rum 180 bergers @2960 or 160 Accubonds @ 3400. The 300 Rum has slightly more energy and barrel might last longer....you will pay for that. Of course u can wimp out and put a break on it.....but, then u can't hunt with it unless u take the time to put on muffs. IMO 7mm all the way for shooting and hunting.

 

[dkhunt14]

Four x for fun is right bigger bullet is better. More downrange energy and farther reach, also better to see impacts. A muzzle break is good, faster follow up and better for spotting shots. Most shooters shoot better with less recoil. I shoot all single shot target actions and on the bench i can shoot 10 shots in 30 seconds. If you set shells in a block you can shoot just about as fast. I also like to shoot the Beger 210VLDS 10 to 20 thous. in the rifling so they are usually long and won't fit a magazine. I have seen fire lap bullets ruin a 1000 yard heavy barrel. I think the 300 RUM is the better way to go. I also don't like belted cases. I thought the 7mm and 300 RUM used a Magnum bolt face. Matt

 

[pyroducksx3]

Four x for fun is right bigger bullet is better. More downrange energy and farther reach, also better to see impacts. A muzzle break is good, faster follow up and better for spotting shots. Most shooters shoot better with less recoil. I shoot all single shot target actions and on the bench i can shoot 10 shots in 30 seconds. If you set shells in a block you can shoot just about as fast. I also like to shoot the Beger 210VLDS 10 to 20 thous. in the rifling so they are usually long and won't fit a magazine. I have seen fire lap bullets ruin a 1000 yard heavy barrel. I think the 300 RUM is the better way to go. I also don't like belted cases. I thought the 7mm and 300 RUM used a Magnum bolt face. Matt

I agree if you were purely speaking which bullets would kill elk better at long range, the 300 RUM wins hands down. The problem is this isnt neccesarily the best option for me right now. I want a repeater, I know you can single shot these just fine but I dont want to. So wanting a repeater greatly increases the cost just in bottom metal alone. Yes they both use the same boltface but I was informed there would be more work needed, it would be minor but still increasing cost. On the muzzlebreak I agree and I plan on installing one at some point but with the heavier barriel, not sure if Im going with the m24 contour or remington varmint contour, as well as the new stock (mcm a-5 vs the hs on it now) Im not sure I'll need one. I have no problem with recoil now and with this added weight it may be more than managable. The other point is that I am already way over budget and I have to draw the line somewhere. I didnt plan on a new custom barrel (going to use rock creek) I didnt plan on a new stock. By going this route I will have a guaranteed 1/2 MOA shooter and it will allow me to extend my ranges. After the my skills become adequate for this longer shots and the barrel gets used up. I will re barrel to the 300 RUM. If cost were not an option I would build a 300 RUM but this is not the world I live in.

 

[dragman]

Depends on barrel length my .284 win has a 30" but I am getting 2955fps with my 175 bergers. A good barrel and lots of development time and you can get the .284 to do a lot.

 

[Airgunner7]

Short of a 223...any well placed shot will harvest any Elk. Seen 'em drop in their tracks with a 257 roberts and a 270 win. Go with the biggest gun you can handle without a break...otherwise you will need to pass up all those close shots in order to put on hearing protection. Elks not going to wait around for that. Unless you don't care about your ears, then I'm typing in the wind.
They make an Idaho light weight 50bmg under 16lbs if you go with a break....

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

Do the 300 RUM and shoot the Cutting Edge C-21 bullet. 180 grain .6 BC at near 3500 fps. It is a hunting bullet that will not blow into a zillion pieces like the berger bullets when you hit something. Remember, it is not about hitting something, it is about killing it when you hit it. Since you mentioned elk you need a big heavy bullet of quality construction you can drive through an elk at any shot angle you may be presented. This allows you more opportunities to kill an elk instead of having to pass on shots until you get that perfect shot angle you want. Problem is nobody passes on the shots and way to many elk are lost each year to guys slinging target type vld bullets into elk at angles or situations that cause high wounding loss.

 

[Bravo 4]

Do the 300 RUM and shoot the Cutting Edge C-21 bullet. 180 grain .6 BC at near 3500 fps.

That does yield some pretty impressive numbers.

 

[WildRose]

That does yield some pretty impressive numbers.

From their website.

This aggressive ogive bullet is designed for single shot rifles or for individuals willing to shoot their rifles loading a single round of ammunition into the chamber and not into a magazine. A bore rider is incorporated in the design to ensure premature contact with the lands does not occur.

COAL will be the brass trimmed to trim length + 1.034" bullet projection for recommended Seal Tite Band position. Rifle must have a minimum throat depth of .137" in order to shoot this bullet at stated 1.034" bullet projection. Bullets can be seated deeper by up to .100" if throat depth requirements are not met.

A minimum 1-10" barrel twist rate with muzzle velocity of 3150fps or greater is required. Real World BC of .570 was calculated using muzzle velocity of 3380fps and actual drops from 500 to 1000 yards. Muzzle velocity was established using a .300 Tomahawk rifle with a 30" barrel with a barrel twist rate of 1-10".

https://cuttingedgebullets.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=MTH_C21

Interesting bullet but it looks like you have to have the right rig and really push them very hard to get peak performance.

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

I have had excellent success with this bullet this year with excellent long range accuracy and killing performance out of a 300 winchester and a 300 RUM. This bullet offers good performance on high velocity close range shots and long range shots.

I am working on actual bc with this bullet now measuring actual drops at long range targets.

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

I have two 7mm rem mags and two 300 RUM's. Here are the actual average ballistics out of the four where I live at 5000 feet elevation. You are comparing apples and oranges with a mid range cartridge vs a super long range hunting rifle. 180 grain berger vs 180 grain Cutting Edge.

The 7mm drops 84" more with nearly 7" more wind drift at 1000 yards, no contest. The 180 grain bullet out of 300 RUM is traveling about 350 fps faster than the 180 berger at 1000 yards, no contest. The 300 RUM has nearly 550 more foot pounds of energy at 1000 yards, no contest. The 7mm remington is a mid range cartridge and there is no comparison to it against a super long range hunting cartridge. If a long range hunting cartridge is what you are after and a 300 RUM fits your action then this is a no brainer. Why try to make a mid range cartridge into a long range cartridge when you can just get the one that works best to begin with instead of trying to make a very marginal cartridge work long range.

To see how good the 300 RUM is compare it to the 338-378 wby which is the best standard long range cartridge out there. The 338-378 with the 225 grain Cutting Edge bullet only beats the 300 RUM 7.5" in drop, 5" in wind drift and 75 fps in velocity. The 338-378 has a significant advantage of over 500 foot pounds energy because of the heavy 225 grain bullet. These are all actual ballistics out of my rifles with accuracy loads.

So when you are ready for the top of the line long range hunting rifle you can get a custom action and build a 338-378 wby and beat the 7mm by over 90" of drop, over 12" in wind drift, over 400 fps, and over 1100 foot pounds of energy at 1000 yards. Now you are hitting the animal with a large 338 caliber bullet 45 grains heavier that will create exponentially more damage to the animal for quick kills vs wounding loss in the little 7mm. Talk to hunters who have shot animals long range for 30-40 years with all calibers of weapons and have seen hundreds of kills. Then make your decision of a long range hunting rifle.

 

[pyroducksx3]

I dont disagree with you that the 7mm is a marginal longrange elk cartridge. I have been comparing the 7mm with 168 bergers going 3150 fps (which my gunsmith assured me his reamer produces) to the 300 RUM 210 going 3100 I think( I dont have the BC computer with me at work) and the 180 CE and I dont think there is a 84" difference in drop if anything the 7 is as good or better, maybe I have my numbers all messed up? But in reguards to energy I agree both are better but I only get a 200-300 ft lbs more energy running the number with the 300. I have been considering things and Im thinking when I get comfortable shooting long range I might rebarrel to the 338 RUM in a 26" (28" isnt out but really want to stick with the 26) and using the 225 CE bullets as there is quite a measurable increase in energy and more appropriate to pursue my longrange elk endevors. For now I am much more comfortable learning to shoot with a catridge that has significantly less recoil, muzzle blast and cheaper to shoot than the ultra. Plus going to an ultra would have costed me almost 500$ more for the build and I am already waaayyyyyyy!!!!! over budget already. I had the redding competition die set dies and was also already set up for the 7 mag, also I wont need a new mag box or muzzle break. So I agree with what you are saying there are better choices to pursue long range elk and I will build my gun up when Im ready. I also understand that the 7 isnt the best learning caliber either but I think I am comfortable with its limitations and its versitility to allow me to grow into a better shooter and then rebarrel with minimal cost as I can use the action that will be all blueprinted and trued with the jewell trigger and bedded into a mcm a-5 so that when my skills and abilities have been proven and developed the only cost to get a more appropriate long range elk gun will be a new mag box, barrel and muzzelbreak. Doing it in this manor allows me to splitup cost. I doubt I will be able to afford a full custom or to build a gun like this again or at least in the near future so I will go this route. I appreciate the help and assistance I know that you have an amazing amount of expierence and knowledge and greatly respect what your opinions are. Thank you