280 AI

[25WSM]

But a 7 mag will easily spank a 280ai loaded the same way. And the 28nos will easily spank them both. There is no substitute for displacement. Bore rider throat lowers pressure and you can get alot more speed. Some guys call it a plus p throating. Same throat on the 338edge.
Shep

 

[6.5-300 BEE]

Well of course it will in a 28". My 280AI Encore will as well. Take a 28" 7 Mag, run the same pressures and 3200 or more could be done. My 26" 7x61 will do 3150 w/140s and no drama. Most factory 280AIs have 24" bbls. Tough to see 3000 fps with them. More powder, more pressure always =s more velocity.

 

[elkaholic]

Bring your money and your chronograph to my place. Bring as much money as you want. Pm me I will give you my address.
Shep

People who think that ANY case design with equal capacity behind a given bore size equals identical velocity might as well throw rocks because they are living in the stone age!!
There are two reasons why this isn't true! One has to do with the fact that powders act/burn differently in different containers, AND, certain designs handle pressure better so even if the first was not true, you still have to load lower pressure, and pressure equals velocity!
So yes, some of the cartridges run at higher pressure, BECAUSE THEY CAN!
This isnt a lecture for you Shep, because I know you know better. There may be some who don't.
And no, didn't just say a 280 A
I. would outrun a 7 mag! I'm saying its closer than it should be based on old technolgy.

 

[L.Sherm]

I ran 3-280Ai with 24" barrels at 3220-3240 with 140's and 23 and 162 at 3070.
It's not a fluke if all 3 would do this.
I run my guns and loads at were ever they shoot the best as long as there no heavy bolt lift and brass extractor swipes.
My brass for the 280AI was fireformed older Remington brass that I had when 1 was a plain 280 Rem.

 

[25WSM]

I know about the changes that happen in different size cases for sure. Put rl 26 in a 243 with a 105 and it can go 3400 fps. I couldn't believe it. The 6.5creed with rl26 does incredible. Rl26 in some bigger cases doesn't get the same jumps. There is a perfect ratio it seems to get magic out of it. What's crazy is my 243ai doesn't jump that much in speed with rl 26. But my 6mm-06 ai does. I can say there are alot of people on this site getting incredible velocity from the 280ai.
Shep

 

[6.5-300 BEE]

Well sadly, Handloader did a test a few years back to try the claims that the 300 WSM's neat case shape would kick butt of the ancient 300 H&H. Of course it did not as we all knew it would not.

Roy was wrong as is anyone who still believes that.

As far as 3200 fps w/140s in a 24" 280AI, there are no published loads that match that. By the time bolt loft is hard and brass swipes show up you are way over safe. Absent a transducer, we have no idea what pressure is present.

But those who believe, believe.

 

[25WSM]

I build all my 280ai hunting rifles on 26 inch barrels. And the lightest bullet I have shot in one is 168 Berger's. A few customers are using 140s for deer but I don't. One customer said he wanted a 24 inch barrel. I said 26. He said make it 25. I said sold. I'm not much on short barrels. My 280AI match rifle is a 28 inch barrel. It really isn't much faster than I see from 26 inches.
Shep

 

[.30cal fanatic]

3050fps with 180 eld-m is not a downgrade lmao. Especially with a slow, super stable powder. Funnily enough the same recipe throws 195's at the same speed. Your ai or Saum can't do that it just doesn't have the legs.

The plus side is I can always jack her up to 3250 FPS, you don't have the luxury with the 280 which is essentially a glorified 30-06. There is no comparing the two they are in diff categories

 

[L.Sherm]

Well sadly, Handloader did a test a few years back to try the claims that the 300 WSM's neat case shape would kick butt of the ancient 300 H&H. Of course it did not as we all knew it would not.

Roy was wrong as is anyone who still believes that.

As far as 3200 fps w/140s in a 24" 280AI, there are no published loads that match that. By the time bolt loft is hard and brass swipes show up you are way over safe. Absent a transducer, we have no idea what pressure is present.

But those who believe, believe.

Look at Noslers data, 5 different powders with 140's at 3240 - 3260 in 26".
None of the powders were 23 or 26"
I gained 40 fps when I switched from 22 to 23 in all 3 and probably accuracy too.
I believe because i did it, no hear say.

 

[25WSM]

Nobody is comparing your 28nos to a 280ai. We're comparing your load for your 28nos to a 280ai. Same. Nobody said the 28 nos was less than a 280ai. But your load is. That's what I was saying. I don't load my 257wby to 257roberts velocity to get a few more shots. I would just build a Roberts. Also notice when someone puts a smiley at the end of the sentence it's not meant to be a critical statement its a light hearted statement. So like I was saying feed that sucker and let it eat.
They are making new barrels every day. Note smiley.
Shep

 

[dougduey]

I know about the changes that happen in different size cases for sure. Put rl 26 in a 243 with a 105 and it can go 3400 fps. I couldn't believe it. The 6.5creed with rl26 does incredible. Rl26 in some bigger cases doesn't get the same jumps. There is a perfect ratio it seems to get magic out of it. What's crazy is my 243ai doesn't jump that much in speed with rl 26. But my 6mm-06 ai does. I can say there are alot of people on this site getting incredible velocity from the 280ai.
Shep

Yes, RL26 surprises me a lot. I ran out of case capacity before I hit pressure in my 6.5 Creed. I got over 3000 fps with the 143 gr ELDX, but settled on 2953 fps and 0.50" moa or less.
I listened to Sherm, Shep and Lance with RL23 in the 280 AI. I've got the 143 gr Hammer doing 3268 fps and hit pressure just under 3300 fps. The 151 LRAB is a 3121 fps and ran out of case capacity over 3200 fps. I've got a friend running the same bullet in his AI, but with RL26, and he's at 3235 fps. Finishing up load development with the 162 ELDX and RL23. It's at 3030 fps and hit pressure at 3076 fps. That's not screaming fast with that bullet, and is more in line with the mind of velocities others are getting with 160 pills.
My barrel is 24" with a 1:8, but it does have a match chamber, so I have longer COALS.

 

[25WSM]

And some barrel are just fast. And some are slow. The deer won't notice the difference.
Shep

 

[dougduey]

And some barrel are just fast. And some are slow. The deer won't notice the difference.
Shep

The deer may not notice, but I will!!!
I'm a velocity junkie.

 

[CTK]

My new build will have an 8.7" twist. I am thinking that this will be fine up to a 175 berger. Will be 24" barrel. I would be thrilled if could safely and accurately push a 160 Accubond near 3000 fps. In my previous 280ai the accuracy nodes were situated at super slow and at the ragged edge of over pressure. Is this a common experience with the 280ai? I am wondering if magnum primers might change this equation or will have no positive impact at all? My hunting temps can vary 60+ degrees. I have tried to stay with less temp sensitive powder. My first 280ai loved N165 with 140 Accubonds. Later learned that VV powders were very temp sensitive. This was early in my reloading.