25-06 Ackley Improved velocities

[B-LOT Banga]

This is the crossroad I am at in life with my hunting and shooting path. My 25-06 is old and now needs a new barrel, but has been an incredible caliber for me and been a workhorse putting game on the table so I am sticking with it. Ive been wanting to hunt and shoot farther with it as my shooting skills are improving, and your right without the option Im limiting my potential to the standard cartridge even if its just a little less. What I am seeing with ballistic calculator estimations a minor 100fps advantage translates to an additional 100yds terminal velocity range. Generally speaking and all other things being equal of course.

I dropped my rifle off at my gunsmith this weekend and went over my options. I still have time to change my mind as he begins to see what blanks he can get for me for him to finish, (we are hoping in time for fall). I did tell him to go AI but yeah part of me is cautious if Im making things more difficult for me since Id be committed to learning to reload for it with virtually no load data available.

I understand your situation. I'm not an expert in reloading but keeping a detailed log, labeling all of your loads and keeping them separate doing one load at a time can make things easier and of course safer.

Like I've mentioned I'm not an expert but I'm willing to help you step by step as I've gotten help from others here who were willing to take the time to help me. I do have an assortment of 25 caliber bullets and I also have an assortment of 25-06 brass as well as 25-06 AI brass. JUST DO IT!!! I promise you won't have any regrets as the AI version of the 25-06 rem is a very great option.

Trust me the extra speed will be great for the pronghorns you seek. The extra speed will help slice wind, have that extra energy to help you when your shot isn't the best having a greater wound channel.

PM me with your questions and I will answer them truthfully and as detailed as I can. If I don't have the answer I will asked my mentors for their advice. There are many others way more experienced and qualified than me and even certified in bullets and ballistics which I am not.

But I'm willing to share my components and experiences with you for free, no money or favors involved. Just please do the same for someone else in need. I will respect your decisions and ideas and won't push my beliefs on you because I might be wrong and I might be able to learn something from you as well. PM me brother god bless. Aloha

P.S. between the 25-06 rem and 25-06 AI in real life MAXING both to it limits you will see around 200 or so fps in my real life testing. Buts it's my personal experiences.

 

[Koda_]

I understand your situation. I'm not an expert in reloading but keeping a detailed log, labeling all of your loads and keeping them separate doing one load at a time can make things easier and of course safer.

Like I've mentioned I'm not an expert but I'm willing to help you step by step as I've gotten help from others here who were willing to take the time to help me. I do have an assortment of 25 caliber bullets and I also have an assortment of 25-06 brass as well as 25-06 AI brass. JUST DO IT!!! I promise you won't have any regrets as the AI version of the 25-06 rem is a very great option.

Trust me the extra speed will be great for the pronghorns you seek. The extra speed will help slice wind, have that extra energy to help you when your shot isn't the best having a greater wound channel.

PM me with your questions and I will answer them truthfully and as detailed as I can. If I don't have the answer I will asked my mentors for their advice. There are many others way more experienced and qualified than me and even certified in bullets and ballistics which I am not.

But I'm willing to share my components and experiences with you for free, no money or favors involved. Just please do the same for someone else in need. I will respect your decisions and ideas and won't push my beliefs on you because I might be wrong and I might be able to learn something from you as well. PM me brother god bless. Aloha

P.S. between the 25-06 rem and 25-06 AI in real life MAXING both to it limits you will see around 200 or so fps in my real life testing. Buts it's my personal experiences.

This is incredibly helpful and I am highly appreciative. I feel comfortable with the idea of learning, but the big question for me is if my rifle will be ready in time to develop a load for it this year. If I'm time crunched I will probably just zero it on factory ammo and go. (will be saving the fireformed brass). I doubt I will draw a pronghorn tag this year but I'm getting up there in points, I probably will put in for a point saver this year but I still need this rifle for fall hunting.
So if you get a PM many months from now asking for tips its me... Thank you for your offer.

 

[VinceMule]

Get a reamer that is designed around lapua 30/06 brass, no down side, tough as an anvil.

R#26 with the heavies should impress.

I am with J E Customs, I have killed a flock of animals with the std 25/06, will not knock the AI as I shot out a barrel on 85-87g bullets with R#22 on Rock Chucks, 12T, 030 freebore around 3850 MAX. Next I had a 26" 257 Weatherby with zero freebore on a 10T, three groove Pac nor where the 85s were shooting tiny groups at 4130 fps with R#19, and 100's at 3850 with R#22. The Weatherby with the 80g Barnes TTSX at 4150 would surely impress!

The AI with Lapua brass, twisted properly should impress in spades.

Some years ago, I ran into a gunsmith in Texas that was building a flock of std 25/06's with 26" Shilen 12T shooting the 100g Sierra flat base at 3600 and the 117g Sierra flat base at 3300 using new Win brass, R#25 with Federal 215's. A good friend bought one of his rifles and I asked my friend if I could work up load for it using Gunsmiths suggested loads. Well, the gunsmith was right on the money with his speeds and loads. The 100's were shooting tiny clover leaf's and the 117g was shooting groups in the 4's at 3300s.

For the guys that shoot 300 and under, the 117g bullets from hornady and sierra just get the job done.

 

[B-LOT Banga]

This is incredibly helpful and I am highly appreciative. I feel comfortable with the idea of learning, but the big question for me is if my rifle will be ready in time to develop a load for it this year. If I'm time crunched I will probably just zero it on factory ammo and go. (will be saving the fireformed brass). I doubt I will draw a pronghorn tag this year but I'm getting up there in points, I probably will put in for a point saver this year but I still need this rifle for fall hunting.
So if you get a PM many months from now asking for tips its me... Thank you for your offer.

You have lots of time. While fireforming your brass and breaking in your barrel keeping a detailed log you will learn a lot. Playing with seating depth and max charge weights. You would then look at your speeds, rough accuracy and then choose what's best for your application. I cannot stress enough to label everything and keep a clean organized log book, then after going through your data a certain bullet will pop out and with just a little tweaking you will have a sub MOA killer… with all of your info and data coming from YOUR rifle and not someone else's.

This is where you must decide on your own what's best for you and not what person A, B or C thinks is best. I'm confident you will have more than enough time to get the perfect load for YOU and YOUR NEW 25-06 AI if you so choose that. Good luck brother Aloha

 

[Koda_]

You have lots of time. While fireforming your brass and breaking in your barrel keeping a detailed log you will learn a lot. Playing with seating depth and max charge weights. You would then look at your speeds, rough accuracy and then choose what's best for your application. I cannot stress enough to label everything and keep a clean organized log book, then after going through your data a certain bullet will pop out and with just a little tweaking you will have a sub MOA killer… with all of your info and data coming from YOUR rifle and not someone else's.

This is where you must decide on your own what's best for you and not what person A, B or C thinks is best. I'm confident you will have more than enough time to get the perfect load for YOU and YOUR NEW 25-06 AI if you so choose that. Good luck brother Aloha

I have a ton more to learn because I recently learned I never took care of my old barrel. I started reloading for this last summer and kept running into pressure signs I couldn't figure out even downloading charges and discovered my barrel is really shot out and heavy carbon build up in the chamber. I never knew about pressure signs prior even the factory ammo had flattened primers so it was difficult to learn what to compare to.
Now I will be keeping round count, not shooting hot, a shooting journal and need to start reading on how to keep a new barrel clean.

 

[B-LOT Banga]

I have a ton more to learn because I recently learned I never took care of my old barrel. I started reloading for this last summer and kept running into pressure signs I couldn't figure out even downloading charges and discovered my barrel is really shot out and heavy carbon build up in the chamber. I never knew about pressure signs prior even the factory ammo had flattened primers so it was difficult to learn what to compare to.
Now I will be keeping round count, not shooting hot, a shooting journal and need to start reading on how to keep a new barrel clean.

We all live and learn, nobody is perfect. It's really easy to help humble, open minded people willing to learn. When your ready I have components you can try and then zero in on what you will need. I hope that helps brother!! Aloha

 

[scheme]

based on what I'm reading elsewhere and this thread this is what Im finding too. When i run some muzzle velocity estimates thru shooterscalculator.com and compare just a 100fps difference its not a significant improvement downrange. (Although this is where my reloading experience is new, I don't really have a benchmark with different projectiles and starting muzzle velocities and still wont really know until I reload for it. )
Im just at a junction with getting a new barrel to decide if I want to improve this, even if its a little bit but I dont have a way to know the possibilites it could offer me as I learn to shoot better Im just hoping the AI would at least increase the terminal velocity of the projectile by even 100yds would be nice for upcoming pronhorn hunts.

I'll add a couple of more points. Easy one first, Accurate/Ramshot sent me some .25-06 AI data when I emailed them. I'd be happy to forward that on to you, or I'm sure they would if you just asked. It's limited, and for "traditional" bullets, but you can be confident in it as a starting place.

Maybe I missed it, but what bullets do you intend to shoot? I'm not really tracking your post above. Standard or AI will have plenty of stuff for antelope. I mean, even if you were confident in 750+, with the right bullet and powder combination, either version will get it done. 100 or so more fps (which I actually believe is low for the difference in velocity between standard and AI, with the heavy bullets anyway) will just give you a little less drop and drift out that far… For a little reference, the load I've previously mentioned is holding 1900 fps (still above minimum velocity recommended by Berger for their elite hunters) and over 1000 ft-lbs at 1k yards. The standard case falls a little short of that, but it's still plenty good for pronghorn at that distance.

Is AI "worth it"?… I'm happy with my choice. My fireform load is a 120 grain sierra gameking (because I had a bunch on the shelf) at like 2900. It shoots tiny little groups, and will be great for all kinds of game at "typical" hunting distances. I'll use those loads when the environment and game makes sense to, and I could be relatively happy shooting that rifle, with that standard-case load for the life of the gun, but that's not why I built it. I built it to shoot the heavy bullets fast enough to go long when the environment and game makes sense to. A standard chamber rifle probably would have been just as good for me, because I'm personally not confident shooting game far enough where I have to worry about the difference in performance being the limiting factor. There are some real reasons (that we can debate about the worth of) that influenced my decision, but, as much as anything, I just wanted something different.

 

[Koda_]

Maybe I missed it, but what bullets do you intend to shoot?

One of the other drawbacks I see is there isnt a huge offering of heavier bullets for this caliber for hunting big game. The only ones I know of are Hammers and Bergers. Since I also hunt elk with this rifle if I wanted just one projectile to do all Im leaning to the 128g Hammer Hunters, Im unfamiliar with Bergers performance and tend to favor monolithics (but I do see the 133g Bergers have a very high BC). I have a feeling I will end up developing a load specific for deer and pronghorn and would go down to 100g projectiles for that probably the Barnes TTSX or LRX... I have a good supply of 100g Barnes TTSX to get me going, and about a hundred 120g Nosler Partitions I got lucky to find... collecting reloading components has been a year long process and lots of waiting but I have enough to get started now, except it will be delayed while I wait now on the new barrel.

 

[Mike Matteson]

I used a 25-06 for years hunting deer. Great rifle in a Rem 721 with a 22" barrel. Never did a velocity test on it. I did set up target out to 500yds. Use target made by me. At that time you had to go out and do your taping for distance. My brother is a surveyor, so he had a very long chain. I develop away to range with my 2 x 7 Leupold Scope. At that time I was using 120gr Nosler lead tipped boat tail bullets. (No longer made). Consistence grouping at 3" @ 500yds. I used Fed 210, MRP or N-205, and Winchester cases. They did the job. It took down deer and Antelope at the 500 yds range. Would I change to AI? Yes!

 

[RAGGED EDGE]

How about a 6.5 RPM necked down to 25 cal? More case capacity than an '06 while using the same bolt face.

I was kicking that around myself.

 

[RAGGED EDGE]

One of the other drawbacks I see is there isnt a huge offering of heavier bullets for this caliber for hunting big game. The only ones I know of are Hammers and Bergers. Since I also hunt elk with this rifle if I wanted just one projectile to do all Im leaning to the 128g Hammer Hunters, Im unfamiliar with Bergers performance and tend to favor monolithics (but I do see the 133g Bergers have a very high BC). I have a feeling I will end up developing a load specific for deer and pronghorn and would go down to 100g projectiles for that probably the Barnes TTSX or LRX... I have a good supply of 100g Barnes TTSX to get me going, and about a hundred 120g Nosler Partitions I got lucky to find... collecting reloading components has been a year long process and lots of waiting but I have enough to get started now, except it will be delayed while I wait now on the new barrel.

Midway had a 120-grain Partition overrun at a good price a month ago.

 

[FEENIX]

One of the other drawbacks I see is there isnt a huge offering of heavier bullets for this caliber for hunting big game. The only ones I know of are Hammers and Bergers. Since I also hunt elk with this rifle if I wanted just one projectile to do all Im leaning to the 128g Hammer Hunters, Im unfamiliar with Bergers performance and tend to favor monolithics (but I do see the 133g Bergers have a very high BC). I have a feeling I will end up developing a load specific for deer and pronghorn and would go down to 100g projectiles for that probably the Barnes TTSX or LRX... I have a good supply of 100g Barnes TTSX to get me going, and about a hundred 120g Nosler Partitions I got lucky to find... collecting reloading components has been a year long process and lots of waiting but I have enough to get started now, except it will be delayed while I wait now on the new barrel.

Here's a compilation of lead-free bullets https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/lead-free-bullet-compilation.290864/

As you noted, Berger has the high BC bullets in 133s and 135s. Blackhole Bullets (https://blackholebullets.com/see-products) has 120s, 130s, and 145s. As you can see, there are more heavier bullet offerings than you think. Good luck!

ADDED: Link to Black Hole bullet thread > https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/blackhole-bullets-25cal.304053/

 

[Mike Matteson]

If you are looking at a new barrel. Look at the 280AI case. Neck it down to .257. The case is longer to the shoulder by a .1" More powder to push the bullet down the barrel. The 25/06, 270, 7mm, 280, and 30/06 are all about the same length. Now the 280AI is longer to the shoulder. Look at a reloading manual. Not much difference with all of them except the 280AI.

 

[FEENIX]

How about a 6.5 RPM necked down to 25 cal? More case capacity than an '06 while using the same bolt face.

I was kicking that around myself.

I, too, considered it, but I abandoned it because I could only get a box of 20 brass (new or once fired) for over a year when it first came out, and it has not gotten better to date.