30-06 Ackley Improved

[Derek M.]

Jim, maybe consider talking to the gunsmith about chambering the rifle with a lead angle favorable to a VLD, then you could try the 185 and 190 Bergers if that suits you. I'd be very curious what those 190s would do in your 26" Brux!

 

[Trickymissfit]

here's a thought: You could have the barrel relined, and just put it aside. Then have a nice custom built barrel in whatever caliber you desire. This way you've always got the original barrel to keep the rifle's value. Winchester at onetime sold a custom grade (something like that) Model 70 that came with a stainless steel tapered octagon barrel. I ordered one, and never got it!
gary

 

[Derek M.]

Gary, it is my understanding that the original barrel is long gone. Jim wrote that the current barrel is a Douglas. I quickly read the thread as it was going but did not proof read it before this post.

 

[kcebcj]

here's a thought: You could have the barrel relined, and just put it aside. Then have a nice custom built barrel in whatever caliber you desire. This way you've always got the original barrel to keep the rifle's value. Winchester at onetime sold a custom grade (something like that) Model 70 that came with a stainless steel tapered octagon barrel. I ordered one, and never got it!
gary

I swapped out the original barrel around 1969 but kept it. I was looking at it not a month ago. A little rough lookin but could be cleaned up. Shot a lot of military ammo for practice and it ruined that barrel

Gary….what do you mean relined? Have never heard of that before.

 

[Trickymissfit]

I swapped out the original barrel around 1969 but kept it. I was looking at it not a month ago. A little rough lookin but could be cleaned up. Shot a lot of military ammo for practice and it ruined that barrel

Gary….what do you mean relined? Have never heard of that before.

barrel relining is a process where they actually sleeve the I.D. and recut the barrel to the original caliber. Most of the time you see it done with guns that have a high value ($$$). If done right, you can't tell it from the original without a complete dissasembly. The only rifles I've seen that were relined were English doubles, and a couple old Winchester lever guns. The doubles were probably worth $70K a piece, and shot very well once they were regulated. There used to be a couple guys that advertised in the back of Gun List that did this.
gary

 

[shortgrass]

barrel relining is a process where they actually sleeve the I.D. and recut the barrel to the original caliber. Most of the time you see it done with guns that have a high value ($$$). If done right, you can't tell it from the original without a complete dissasembly. The only rifles I've seen that were relined were English doubles, and a couple old Winchester lever guns. The doubles were probably worth $70K a piece, and shot very well once they were regulated. There used to be a couple guys that advertised in the back of Gun List that did this.
gary

I don't think anyone (other than the possible hobbiest) re-lines (modern)center fires any more, just rim fires...... Liability! (but,,I've been wrong before)

 

[Ray77]

Some people don't really know about the old wild cat rounds. Ackley improved 30-06 are awesome. They beat the 300wsm hands down. I have one me and my uncle built. I'm also building a 35 whelen ackley improved and then a 280 ackley. If you want my opinion ackley improved is by far better than all your wsm's.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Some people don't really know about the old wild cat rounds. Ackley improved 30-06 are awesome. They beat the 300wsm hands down. I have one me and my uncle built. I'm also building a 35 whelen ackley improved and then a 280 ackley. If you want my opinion ackley improved is by far better than all your wsm's.

Ray, I am so glad you revived this thread. It's quite an interesting read with all those interesting "facts" about the AI calibers (sarcasm)...

Parker Otto Ackley did what he did to just about EVERY caliber available during his lifetime, simply to find out if there was any way his improved design COULD improve the ballistics over the factory offered SAAMI version. Many worked, but many weren't worth the effort with barely noticeable differences. Just like anything with trial and error.

Personally I love Ackley Improved rounds. I have one, and am fixing to have 2 more, one of which is a complete Ackley wildcat, the .300 Ackley Magnum.

Personally, I think PO was a genious, and way ahead of his time, and unfortunately, often overlooked or forgotten to the new school, other than his name. I may not be very old, compared to some of yall, but I have studied weapons and guns since I was a kid. And 2 of the most prominent inuences that have affected me and my opinions on the whole caliber game, are PO Ackley and Layne Simpson. Mainly because I have always heard and read about Ackley, and have always read Guns-N-Ammo, where Layne is an editor and journalist.

I wouldn't be hesitant to build a .30-06 AI. And I would do so, however, I will be building a .300 Sherman instead, which is basically an improved .30-06 Ackley Improved. Sounds crazy, but you'll have to let Rich Sherman explain it to you.

 

[Ray77]

Hey mudrunner I'm a young buck that shouldn't know about the old wild cat rounds, but like you I looked around talk to old timers and they turned me on to them. The ai is the only way to go. As far as retail on one goes I don't care. I like what I like and all them that think its a waste of money can go stick it. Wetherby di the same thing as po ackley did and everyone thought it was a new trend in the gun world. Just because of plain blindness

 

[MudRunner2005]

Ray, I am so glad you revived this thread. It's quite an interesting read with all those interesting "facts" about the AI calibers (sarcasm)...

Parker Otto Ackley did what he did to just about EVERY caliber available during his lifetime, simply to find out if there was any way his improved design COULD improve the ballistics over the factory offered SAAMI version. Many worked, but many weren't worth the effort with barely noticeable differences. Just like anything with trial and error.

Personally I love Ackley Improved rounds. I have one, and am fixing to have 2 more, one of which is a complete Ackley wildcat, the .300 Ackley Magnum.

Personally, I think PO was a genious, and way ahead of his time, and unfortunately, often overlooked or forgotten to the new school, other than his name. I may not be very old, compared to some of yall, but I have studied weapons and guns since I was a kid. And 2 of the most prominent inuences that have affected me and my opinions on the whole caliber game, are PO Ackley and Layne Simpson. Mainly because I have always heard and read about Ackley, and have always read Shooting Times, where Layne is an editor and journalist.

I wouldn't be hesitant to build a .30-06 AI. And I would do so, however, I will be building a .300 Sherman instead, which is basically an improved .30-06 Ackley Improved. Sounds crazy, but you'll have to let Rich Sherman explain it to you.

I must appologise to Layne, I posted Guns-N-Ammo (I have no idea why) instead of Shooting Times. My appologies. Lack of sleep got to me.

 

[J E Custom]

Derek M and the 444shooter

I really appreciate your input as I know nothing about the Ackleys. In the future I will list some history when posting a question when necessary.

The rifle as it sets now has a 22" Douglas barrel a Pacific Research stock and weighs 8.5lbs fully loaded ready to go. It's been my backpack rifle for quite some time but the barrel is almost gone and the stock has a crack right at the butt plate.

Here is what I have in mind for the re-build. McMillan HTG stock which I have, 26" Brux barrel #5 contour which I have. I am done back packing (live right in the middle of the best elk hunting in Idaho and don't have to)so looking at around a 10lb rifle used mainly horse back and from a quad cross canyon. The Ackley thing came up when talking with friends. It was about 50/50 for and against that's why I posted the question. Talked with the local smith tonight and it seems the Ackley would not be worth the effort. "shucks"

Now about the Accubonds. I took a 5 point bull a week ago at 457 yards using 165gr Accubond over 57gr 4350. Hit him twice and my son finish him with a neck shot. I did not hit him really good but it put him down. The next day I took a really good buck at 460 yards using the 200gr Accubond over 53gr 4350. That 200gr bullet did a job on him. Hit him mid section right behind the shoulder. He did a 50 yard death run straight done hill and piled up. Now the bullet did go clear through so don't know what the expansion was but he was torn up. I was impressed and surprised to see that much damage. I have taken a lot of bucks and the damage was above normal for that type of hit. If my memory is correct the velocities I got with the 200's over my chronograph was like 2450 with that 22" barrel. Next year with the re-built rifle I will test the 200g on a bull. I think with the longer barrel 26" and using RL22 might be able to get around 2750fps. If it's accurate that's a 700 yard elk rifle if the bullet does its job. Nosler says that bullet should perform down to 1800fps. We will see!

Again thank you guys. This is just the kind of info I was looking for.

You can talk to a dozen smiths and they will give you as many different answers and hear is mine
for what it is worth.

The first criteria for a custom rifle is to "GET WHAT YOU WANT". It does not matter what is popular
or in vogue.

The AI is an improvement in any case/cartridge period. It improves brass life, it does add to the case capacity and performance all though small improvements in some cases, it is still an improvement.

If you have a rifle that shoots good, it is always best to leave it alone. But if it does not shoot well
for any reason and a barrel change is needed then you have an option to change the cartridge or
chamber it in the original chambering.

Sometimes re chambering will freshen up a used barrel and improve it, The AI doesn't really help
clean up the throat or the lead, it only opens the body and the shoulder of the chamber.

As far as the problem with having to fire form the brass, If the AI is head spaced with the parent
go gauge(In your case a standard 30/06 head space gauge would be used and set at .0000 head space), you can fire the standard 30/06 ammo with good hunting accuracy and fire form at the
same time saving the "Fire forming step" .

Most of the AI's have been around long enough that reamers and dies are standard and available.

Back when P O Ackley was doing all of this there weren't that many ways to better the performance of some cartridges by going to bigger cases like there are today. so the improvements though slight,
was worth the effort.

Today if you want more there are plenty of options, some more difficult than others to deal with but available.

At this time you have an chance to Improve your performance with a longer barrel and even a bigger chamber, both/ether changes will improve the performance. So build what you want and be happy with your choice.

Just my opinion to add to the others.

J E CUSTOM

 

[MudRunner2005]

I just birddog'd a 1986 model 700 ADL in .270 Win at a local store for an awesome price. And I already have a new 26" .308 Win 1:12 heavy barrel sitting at my house. I'm thinking true it, rechamber the .308 barrel to .30-06 AI, and that I would shoot the 168 Berger VLD's for whitetails. Might be a pretty nasty deer rifle, and not overkill.

Anyone got anymore info on it? Load data? Cartridge pictures? Is it best to use .270 brass to account for OAL shrinkage due to the wall and neck expansion? Or can I just use regular .30-06 brass for it?

Reason I ask, is because I have to use .270 Win brass formed and trimmed for my .25-06 AI, because the walls and neck forming cause the brass to shrink about 0.0200".

I hope regular .30-06 brass is ok, because Lapua makes .30-06 brass, and I love Lapua brass.

 

[Rock 29]

Ray, nice choice with the .35 Whelen AI, I have one and would never part with it. It will do 2890 fps with Barnes 225 XLC's & RL 15. I also have a 338-06 AI and I just sent a T/C 30/30 barrel to be cleaned out to a 30/30 AI and as soon as I can find another long action I will have a 6.5 /06 AI.
Its like owning a jeep, you don't understand until you have one.

 

[Rock 29]

I just birddog'd a 1986 model 700 ADL in .270 Win at a local store for an awesome price. And I already have a new 26" .308 Win 1:12 heavy barrel sitting at my house. I'm thinking true it, rechamber the .308 barrel to .30-06 AI, and that I would shoot the 168 Berger VLD's for whitetails. Might be a pretty nasty deer rifle, and not overkill.

Anyone got anymore info on it? Load data? Cartridge pictures? Is it best to use .270 brass to account for OAL shrinkage due to the wall and neck expansion? Or can I just use regular .30-06 brass for it?

Reason I ask, is because I have to use .270 Win brass formed and trimmed for my .25-06 AI, because the walls and neck forming cause the brass to shrink about 0.0200".

I hope regular .30-06 brass is ok, because Lapua makes .30-06 brass, and I love Lapua brass.

MudRunner, I have a great article ( if I can find it) about 30-06 AI where the author was getting 3100 w/ 165's, 2900 w/ 180's and @ 2700+ w/ 200's. Article states all loads were safe in his gun and shot over ohler chrono, shooting a 22" barrel. Your welcome to it if I can find it.