240gr. Mk seating in 300WSM?

[eddybo]

I am not GG and cant speak for him but you are going to cause someone to lose and eye with your off the cuff loading advice. If he loads the 210s to 3000fps with vv550 in a 26 inch barrel he is going to be in the 83,000PSI range.
Powders have different burn rates and what works in one case for a given weight projectile doesnt mean it is going to work well or even safely with another projectile. You can get real close to 3k using the 210 and vv560 but you are not going to do it with 550 within CIP specs.

I do not mean anything by pointing this out wildcat, its just there are people out there who might listen to you and injure themselves. It might save you some heartache to invest in quickload before you go to practicing what you been preaching. Good Luck.

GG, I don't know what you want me to alaborate on. You know way more about this stuff than I do and you have had way more experience with experimentation, ect. You run a shooting school and read about this stuff probably all day long. So what ever you say, I wont dispute it. However, when I had my 6.5x284, I got more velocity with N550 and I did not see any pressure increases with it. I received about 75fps more with the same bullet using this powder. I was orignally shooting a 139grn Lapua Scenar at 3010fps with H4350. When I switched to N550, my velocity went to 3085fps. Like I said, I did not see any pressure problems.

I sold that rifle when I had only about 400 rounds down the barrel, so I never got to see if it effected the throat. I am sure for the extra velocity you receive, you're probably going to see some increased throat erosion and barrel ware. I push my rifles harder and faster, because I am not worried about buying another barrel and having the gunsmith re-chamber, ect. However, for the guy who is trying to make his barrel last as long as possible, than I would probably use a different powder, ect. But there should be no dispute over the increased velocity potential with N550. It will improve your velocity, and I know it would help TacticalHits push the 210grn Bullets at 3000+fps out of his rifle.

W.

 

[diderr]

I'd say he knows a hell of lot more than you do. Want to match resumes with him?

ha ha pwnt!!!!

 

[diderr]

I'll let you all in on my secret, and SAFE 300 wsm load. 210 berg., Norma brass, 9 1/2 rem primers, H4831sc, 65.5 grns (.5 grain above printed max) @ about 90-95% fill, 2.98" COAL. MV: 2,905 @ 4070 ft. elevation out of a 23.75" Shilen barrel.
Wildcat: you data seems to not hold any water, and your load data is not safe for any firearm or for the user.

 

[BountyHunter]

1-11 twist, and with the AMAX stay with the HART barrel as it is true .308 and the AMAXs must have true 308. If you want the mile distance, go with 30" barrel.

Forget anyone telling you an OAL. Your gun will tell you that. It all depends on your reamer and throat. Start them .020 in the lands and come out AFTER you have the powder load worked up. Recommend dummy seating the amax or bullet of choice in a case to where you want it and then sending it to Dave Kiff at Pacific Tool and Guage to have him make your reamer for $135. Key will be do you want to load in a magazine or not? Can go to a longer Wyatts box in many cases, giving longer OAl and less pressure.

I have seen standard quickload chart with mag oal, by adjusting the bullet oal out .100, can decrease pressure over 4k. Think about it, you have increased the case capacity. Norma has two sets of data for 300 Win mag for "light and heavy" cases and they differ by almost 10%, due to case capacity.

Change the twist to slower and you have substantially decreased the initial pressure required to engage the bullet in the rifling and once again less pressure. Go to moly or danzac and you lower the bullet friction coefficiant and again less pressure.

That is why many top 1k shooters are going to 1-11, 1-12, 1-13 and even 1-14 twists for large capacity mag cases. we can push a bullet faster, with less RPM as excess RPM will cause a bullet to blow up, with less pressure over the standard 30 cal 1-10 twist in many cases.

Word of caution on interntet quickload posts as quickload is only close for "standard chambers, standard throats and standard twist" or default data for that caliber according to their disclaimer and their tech. change any of those substantially and it is often not remotely close to being accurate.

Norma MRP is absolutely great in the WSM as very close lot to lot, able to push heavy bullets very fast while no visible signs of pressure at the fps we are running. We are running the 210s to 2950-3050 fps with 10-15 reloadings per case with MRP. H4350 and H4831SC seem to be good also. Standard primers are the way to go with most powders.

BH

 

[wildcat]

Eddybo,

Okay, this is starting to get ridiculous and out of control with these attacks and erroneous fabrications of my posts. I never said any of what you are saying.

I said if he set his rifle up correctly and used a 30" barrel he could probably get between 2900 to 3000fps with the 210grn bullets. I never gave him any load information regarding amount of powder to use, ect. All I did was tell him what kind of powder he could try and might work for him. WHERE!!!!!!!!! did I ever mention he could get 2900 to 3000fps with a 26" barrel. I said his rifle would have to be set up correctly and with a 30" barrel to even get close to 2900 to 3000fps. Regarding VV-N550, all I said was this powder may help him get higher velocities with less pressure.

This type of crap has got to stop. It seems like many of you are targeting me and trying to say I am giving unsafe information. Please, read the post, I never said anything remotely like what you are trying to promote. I know some are on a mission to tag me as an unsafe shooter and I have had enough of this crap!!!!

Tacticalhits, some of these guys are trying to obviously cause problems and I am sorry they are hi-jacking your post with these bulls--t statments.

W.

 

[goodgrouper]

GG, I don't know what you want me to alaborate on. You know way more about this stuff than I do and you have had way more experience with experimentation, ect. You run a shooting school and read about this stuff probably all day long. So what ever you say, I wont dispute it. However, when I had my 6.5x284, I got more velocity with N550 and I did not see any pressure increases with it. I received about 75fps more with the same bullet using this powder. I was orignally shooting a 139grn Lapua Scenar at 3010fps with H4350. When I switched to N550, my velocity went to 3085fps. Like I said, I did not see any pressure problems.

I sold that rifle when I had only about 400 rounds down the barrel, so I never got to see if it effected the throat. I am sure for the extra velocity you receive, you're probably going to see some increased throat erosion and barrel ware. I push my rifles harder and faster, because I am not worried about buying another barrel and having the gunsmith re-chamber, ect. However, for the guy who is trying to make his barrel last as long as possible, than I would probably use a different powder, ect. But there should be no dispute over the increased velocity potential with N550. It will improve your velocity, and I know it would help TacticalHits push the 210grn Bullets at 3000+fps out of his rifle.

W.

The detail in your above post was fine.
Knowing exactly what pressures your rifle is containing is very hard to ascertain without strain gauges like those employed by the Oehler 43. One thing is for sure though, a chronograph can tell you the results of pressure. The fact that you saw only a 75 fps increase in velocity with N550 over H4350 without seeing any tell tale signs of an increase in pressure is not uncommon in the least. After all, 75 fps is not much. I have seen this much change in different lots of the THE SAME POWDER! Unless you were at the very, very edge of maximum pressures for your equipment, a 75 fps increase in pressure would not readily show up without the strain gauges mentioned earlier.

Your first post mentioned faster velocities with less pressure. This is of course, impossible in exact comparisons pertaining to the same rifle. You then changed the wording in your above post to say: " I got more velocity with N550 and I did not see any pressure increases with it." This makes more sense. Your load was not near max and a simple increase of 75 fps was not noticeable in the classic pressure indicators. Despite this, your chronograph saw an increase in pressure and reported it to you in a velocity increase of 75 fps.

There is no free lunch in physics. And guns are pretty inefficient machines. To get a significant increase in speed, a disporportionate amount of energy must be used since most firearms are only about 20-30% efficient. The remainder is lost in waste heat dissipation. So pressures are directly related to velocities but it becomes quite a complicated equation.

 

[wildcat]

GG, I respect your knowledge. I will be a more detailed with my future posts.

W.

 

[jwp475]

GG, I respect your knowledge. However, you're trying to critique this too much. It seems like you and others are really going after my posts and dissecting them. Some are even making things up like EDDYBO. I will make sure I am more detailed with my information. All I did was let the guy know what kind of powders he could use. I did not think I was going to be critiqued on everything I say. I thought I was being pretty clear about the N550 powder, apparently for you I wasn't. I don't mine the dissection, however, I hope you critique every poster the same way. I don't see this happening, so I feel I am being directly targeted for this type of harrasment from you and a few others.

W.

 

[eddybo]

I took these 2 sentences from you post seems to mean that you are telling him to use vv550 and work up to 3000fps to me. If that was not the intent then I misread your post and am big enough to admit a mistake when I make one. Read these sentences and tell me I am wrong as to what you said, If I am wrong I appolagize. If you still think that it will help tacticalhits shoot the 210s at 3k with 550 we will agree to disagree.

Quote (But there should be no dispute over the increased velocity potential with N550. It will improve your velocity, and I know it would help TacticalHits push the 210grn Bullets at 3000+fps out of his rifle.) End Quote.

Wildcat I have no issue with you, do not take my posts to mean that. I am only trying to stop someone from reading your post as I did and destroying thier gun or eyesight. I know you have had a bad run here lately and feel singled out, but I am not trying to jump on, just correct a mistatement that I feel you made. If you think I am jumping on you it is just a defensive reaction.

 

[TacticalHits]

Hey, it looks like you all have been having fun since last time I checked.
I will stay out of your arguments and misunderstandings.
Since I don't care if my bullets fit in the magazine, how far out can I put them? I have already decided on the 210gr. berger vlds with norma brass. If I mount them out as far as possible what kind of COAL am I looking at(just curious)? Also, do you really think its possible to get out to a mile if everything works good, and under perfect conditions?gun)That would be sweet! I am soo excited about this project I can hardly wait to get practicing with this setup!

Thanks Nathan,

 

[eddybo]

BTW wildcat, I ran QL again with a 30 inch barrel and got a pressure of 74374 for 3004fps. With vv560 you will get 2930fps with CIP pressure of 64542.

There is no way anyone is safely getting 3000 with a 210 using 550. Even if a reader who relied upon your post had enough experiance to keep from injuring himself your reccomendation very may well cost him 25-30 bucks just to try out a powder that clearly will not perform as you claim. That is my only problem with your post.

 

[wildcat]

Eddybo, AS LONG AS HIS RIFLE IS SET UP CORRECTLY AND HE USES A 30" BARREL WHICH I STATED IN MY FIRST POST, HE COULD PROBABLY GET BETWEEN 2900 TO 3000FPS. Eddybo, you're wrong and I wish you would apologize for your statement as it's not correct. I don't have a problem with you either, however, please change your statement.

Eddybo, do you not undaerstand the word PROBABLY. I did not say it was a guarantee. If I had said that, than I could see you being so concerned.

Also, read BountyHunters post. This might change your mind how it's being done without unsafe presurres.
W.

 

[eddybo]

I ran the 210 berger through exbal at 2900fps at sea level and you should a retained velocity of 1043 at 1760yards. With the 210 SMk your going to be around 840fps.

BTW be careful relying on load info from the net, even exbal predictions.

 

[diderr]

1-11 twist, and with the AMAX stay with the HART barrel as it is true .308 and the AMAXs must have true 308. If you want the mile distance, go with 30" barrel.

Forget anyone telling you an OAL. Your gun will tell you that. It all depends on your reamer and throat. Start them .020 in the lands and come out AFTER you have the powder load worked up. Recommend dummy seating the amax or bullet of choice in a case to where you want it and then sending it to Dave Kiff at Pacific Tool and Guage to have him make your reamer for $135. Key will be do you want to load in a magazine or not? Can go to a longer Wyatts box in many cases, giving longer OAl and less pressure.

I have seen standard quickload chart with mag oal, by adjusting the bullet oal out .100, can decrease pressure over 4k. Think about it, you have increased the case capacity. Norma has two sets of data for 300 Win mag for "light and heavy" cases and they differ by almost 10%, due to case capacity.

Change the twist to slower and you have substantially decreased the initial pressure required to engage the bullet in the rifling and once again less pressure. Go to moly or danzac and you lower the bullet friction coefficiant and again less pressure.

That is why many top 1k shooters are going to 1-11, 1-12, 1-13 and even 1-14 twists for large capacity mag cases. we can push a bullet faster, with less RPM as excess RPM will cause a bullet to blow up, with less pressure over the standard 30 cal 1-10 twist in many cases.

Word of caution on interntet quickload posts as quickload is only close for "standard chambers, standard throats and standard twist" or default data for that caliber according to their disclaimer and their tech. change any of those substantially and it is often not remotely close to being accurate.

Norma MRP is absolutely great in the WSM as very close lot to lot, able to push heavy bullets very fast while no visible signs of pressure at the fps we are running. We are running the 210s to 2950-3050 fps with 10-15 reloadings per case with MRP. H4350 and H4831SC seem to be good also. Standard primers are the way to go with most powders.

BH

BH, should I go slower than 1-10" on my next barrel? All I'm going to shoot out of it is long leade 300 wsm w/ 210 bergers. I have a 1-10 right now, and it is shooting 210's well and seems to be stabilizing them but its only a 24". my next is going to be a 28"