180 Berger VLD expansion mystery

[oldmossy]

I'm skinning the deer tomorrow. Had plans of doing that today, but had two guys bring me deer for shoulder mounts that I had to cape before coming to work. Between hunting, working, and taxidermy I am running short on time.
I'm curious to see what I find after Brozs comment. Maybe only part of the bullet exited. I'm more anxious to see your guys comments after you watch video. My 5 year old killing his first buck with a Ultra mag. LOL. But before the negative comments, I had my reason for switching out the 22-250. Also, I took care of the recoil with a treestand strap wrapped around a bull bag and the butt of the stock. Worked to perfection. Recoil was nearly non-existant. My boy is hunting crazy. If he aint chasing black birds with his red rider(which amazes me that he actually kills some birds with that thing)he's wanting me to go coyote or bear hunting with his airedale pup. He's something else!
As far as when I gutted the deer. I gotta be honest-I didnt actually pay that much attention to the insides. I think I was as excited to get home and show momma as he was. The video was a big hit at Thanksgiving dinner later that day. Cant wait to get it edited and on here for yas.

 

[Jumpalot]

Looks like Broz and I were posting at about the same time.

 

[oldmossy]

Got deer processed today. As stated earlier, both shoulders broken. With a small exit hole. The internal damage is very good. I'm not sure how a wound channel like that had such a small exit hole. Anyway, video downloading to youtube as I write this. Its saying 200 minutes left for download to be complete.

 

[mrb1982]

oldmossy, don't sweat it. You are whacking and stacking game and they are all dead and you haven't tracked one yet. I don't care what bullet you use, if you hunt enough you will have a shot that does not do what you expect. That is just how it is. It will be interesting to see what you find as you skin the deer. Is it possible since the deer was dead on impact that the bullet did enter and expand and only a small part of it exited? Just a thought.

Jeff

I tend to agree with this opinion and a couple more similar to it in this thread. I guess nothing is 100%. I guess we just do the best we can with what we got. Seems to be more an anomaly than a trend.

 

[oldmossy]

took a few tries, but got video on here. started a new thread

 

[Kennibear]

oldmossy: In my family it is bad parenting to have children, boys or girls, not tossing slugs downrange by age five. Bought a Chipmunk thirty years ago just for that.

I have found that when kids grow up in a house full of guns and they can safely handle every one of them there is never a problem. Even the school system can't indoctrinate them with "all guns are bad". I bullet proof my kids not kid proof my guns. Sixteen year olds are better on a computer than you, does anybody really think a gun safe is going to keep them away from the guns? When the kids know they can go shooting with ol' dad any and every time they ask it kinda removes the "Forbidden Fruit" syndrome.

Your post shows an excellent shot. Know how I can tell? There's a dead deer in it!!! LOL!

My gun safe is to keep out idiots and thieves.

 

[Jumpalot]

After watching the video, I stand by my earlier post.

 

[Kennibear]

old mossy

please post a link to the new thread

Thanks!

KB

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Got deer processed today. As stated earlier, both shoulders broken. With a small exit hole. The internal damage is very good. I'm not sure how a wound channel like that had such a small exit hole. Anyway, video downloading to youtube as I write this. Its saying 200 minutes left for download to be complete.

Did you find any bullet fragments while processing?

 

[Broz]

Did you find any bullet fragments while processing?

Mark, have you seen the wound channel in the video? Take a look and see what you think, especially wound channel size in far shoulder. My opinion is it expanded and maybe only part exited? But it sure dispatched him quickly. Good info from a 7 RUM with a 180 Berger at a pretty high impact velocity.

Here is a link to the vid.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/160-yrds-longrange-how-about-5-year-old-126113/

Jeff

.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Mark, have you seen the wound channel in the video? Take a look and see what you think, especially wound channel size in far shoulder. My opinion is it expanded and maybe only part exited? But it sure dispatched him quickly. Good info from a 7 RUM with a 180 Berger at a pretty high impact velocity.

Here is a link to the vid.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/160-yrds-longrange-how-about-5-year-old-126113/

Jeff

.

Yup Jeff, I saw it. Although there was a lot of damage I didn't clearly see the wound channel except the for the exit which looked quite large. I agree it looks like the bullet expanded and a small part of it exited but the OP didn't mention finding any fragments and I didn't see any. I have never seen an exit wound like that, that showed a large hole in the flesh and a small one in the hide. Were there fragments under the hide? Did the bullet tumble and exit point or tail first? Was the damage due to hydraulic effect?

If there were fragments, case solved. If not, it remains a mystery.

And yup, the bullet did its job one way or another. I just like to learn the details to have a better understanding of these sort of anomalies.

 

[Pdvdh]

I've observed three animals, two dall rams and one black bear, that were struck with solid body hits broadside thru the ribs by bullets that didn't expand. The animals were eventually recovered and non-professionally 'autopsied' during field dressing and processing. The two rams did nothing more than jump and reposition upon being struck. The black bear hesitated and then took off running.

The wound channels looked nothing like the wound channel on this deer, and the exit holes were caliber diameter. No different than the entrance holes. I am confident this Berger expanded, based on observation of the video. This exit hole is at least twice the bullet diameter. The damage to surrounding muscle is substantial. Non-expanding bullets that don't tumble cause very little damage to the tissue surrounded the wound path. The exit hole is the same size as the entrance hole. And they don't drop DRT unless they're brained or spined close to the skull.

That's one happy boy, who will always remember this hunt!

 

[oldmossy]

I didn't see any bullet fragments. While skinning deer, I heard what sounded like a bullet fragment hitting the concrete floor. Upon investigating the sound, I found it to be a chunk of bone. The leg bone was in many many pieces. But no trace of bullet fragments were found. I am no longer concerned about these bullets. Not that I was too much to begin with. 17 and counting. Doe season opens soon. And this year I'm prepared for some long range videoing. I got several friends with tags, including myself with three. Hope to get some kills on here soon. Go berger!

 

[WildRose]

I'm sure the tip was not damaged. I always inspect my bullet.
I was under the impression that velocity is what deterimed expansion. Is it possible that at that close of a distance,something prevents it from having normal expansion? Ive had a couple people say it was traveling too fast and didn't have time to expand. This goes against how I thought things worked, I do not believe this. But then again, I've found out through this website and extensive home research and experimentation that things don't always work like I once believed they did.
Is there anyway this "too close for expansion" theory is possible?

It may have in fact expanded. I had similar issues with Nosler BT's especially on big hogs. What happened was that at close range they opened so much and so quickly basically the bullet turned inside out with the petals folding outward and all the way back such that the base became the leading edge. I recovered quite a few of them but prior to those recoveries I thought they were not expanding at all and just penciling through.