210 berger expansion test

[Wheatgerm]

I see your point and no offense taken, I have stated that I don't know how accurate this is to an actual animal. IMO The only true way you can test exactly what a bullet will do on an animal is to shoot them. And shoot lots of them then dissect every one and see what each kill does (even then sometimes its hard to determine what it did). Because each hunting situation is different..

The idea of this test was to the able to repeatedly shoot the same consistency of "guts" then be able to repack it and shoot it again.. I've made the DIY ballistic gel before and it does great for seeing what your bullet is doing but threw my eyes the consistency is more like a huge block of muscle. This is why I decided to try the dough, It's alot softer.. soft enough I can easily put my finger into it, and threw my eyes it seemed more similar to what lungs, guts ect would be like.
I have nothing to stand behind, im just a redneck farmer that likes to shoot my gun and fill my tags. And my main concern was that my reloading equipment or anything else I could have been doing may have pinched the tip to where it wouldn't want to expand. So the test was a success in my eyes. Because my bullets will expand on a soft material (probably softer than an elk or deer) with a shallow or deep hallowpoint.

 

[Broz]

Antelope! The perfect test media...
Easy to get multiple tags for, out all day so no worries of shooting one right before dark. Usually in open areas where you can view them after the shot. And best of all they eat a whole lot better than any other media I know of.

But this test was to prove the bullet would indeed expand. Even with a partially closed tip. Sure the consistency of the media is not exactly the same as a live animal. But no 2 shots on any animal are the same either. Some start with bone, some finish with bone, some no bone at all. So the best way is to shoot into what ever you can muster up as many times as it takes to build your own confidence to the point you have no doubts for use on game. Then as said before, place it well.

Jeff

 

[WildRose]

Antelope! The perfect test media...
Easy to get multiple tags for, out all day so no worries of shooting one right before dark. Usually in open areas where you can view them after the shot. And best of all they eat a whole lot better than any other media I know of.

But this test was to prove the bullet would indeed expand. Even with a partially closed tip. Sure the consistency of the media is not exactly the same as a live animal. But no 2 shots on any animal are the same either. Some start with bone, some finish with bone, some no bone at all. So the best way is to shoot into what ever you can muster up as many times as it takes to build your own confidence to the point you have no doubts for use on game. Then as said before, place it well.

Jeff

They definitely make the best Tamales I've ever eaten.

 

[cowboy]

Wheatgerm: well done - I take my hat off to you for your redneck innovativeness. They say that copying something is the finest form of flattery. I intend to use your dough set up - I like that. Thanks for sharing

 

[Wheatgerm]

Wheatgerm: well done - I take my hat off to you for your redneck innovativeness. They say that copying something is the finest form of flattery. I intend to use your dough set up - I like that. Thanks for sharing

Copy away!! And let us know how it goes. Ill give you a tip tho mixing that much dough sucks. Get a 5 gallon bucket and get someone to hang onto it then use a big mixing drill for mixing cement or mortar. Because mixing that much by hand will take all day and your arms will be too tired to shoot once your finished haha.

Broz, I get a few depredation antelope tags every year I plan on flinging some led at some down range next august when I get my tags. Ill share how it goes. But I have total confidence in the bullet as long as I do my part and put it in the boiler room

 

[Scot E]

I see your point and no offense taken, I have stated that I don't know how accurate this is to an actual animal. IMO The only true way you can test exactly what a bullet will do on an animal is to shoot them. And shoot lots of them then dissect every one and see what each kill does (even then sometimes its hard to determine what it did). Because each hunting situation is different..

The idea of this test was to the able to repeatedly shoot the same consistency of "guts" then be able to repack it and shoot it again.. I've made the DIY ballistic gel before and it does great for seeing what your bullet is doing but threw my eyes the consistency is more like a huge block of muscle. This is why I decided to try the dough, It's alot softer.. soft enough I can easily put my finger into it, and threw my eyes it seemed more similar to what lungs, guts ect would be like.
I have nothing to stand behind, im just a redneck farmer that likes to shoot my gun and fill my tags. And my main concern was that my reloading equipment or anything else I could have been doing may have pinched the tip to where it wouldn't want to expand. So the test was a success in my eyes. Because my bullets will expand on a soft material (probably softer than an elk or deer) with a shallow or deep hallowpoint.

That makes sense. Again, not bashing in any way. I love the ingenuity of it! And I agree the dough probably is pretty realisitc to vitals despite the lack of fluidity and water content. My big concern was really the plywood and waferboard. It would seem that a hard, dense surface like that could cause a bullet to expand, even if it had a bad tip, than they would in normal game hit scenarios.

It would be interesting to see one with just the waferboard and dough or maybe just the dough, to represent no bone contact.

Anyway, bravo for finding out for yourself.

Scot E.

 

[toddc]

Antelope! The perfect test media...
Easy to get multiple tags for, out all day so no worries of shooting one right before dark. Usually in open areas where you can view them after the shot. And best of all they eat a whole lot better than any other media I know of.

But this test was to prove the bullet would indeed expand. Even with a partially closed tip. Sure the consistency of the media is not exactly the same as a live animal. But no 2 shots on any animal are the same either. Some start with bone, some finish with bone, some no bone at all. So the best way is to shoot into what ever you can muster up as many times as it takes to build your own confidence to the point you have no doubts for use on game. Then as said before, place it well.

Jeff

kinda how I figured out that a 338 300gr smk will kill a deer pretty consistently. Shoot a whole slug of them!

 

[toddc]

They definitely make the best Tamales I've ever eaten.

The antelope or the test media? Reason I ask is the test media looks a lot like tamale masa.

 

[Wheatgerm]

I can see your point, especially on the 1/2 inch plywood. The waferboard was only 1/4 thick I figured that would be more like the animal hide vs bone. But I have pictures that I didn't post of the holes after they had gone threw both boards and the bullet didn't show any expansion passing threw the wood. With both the wafer board and the plywood the bullet didn't expand until it had made it 2-4to inches into the dough.. it SEEMED like it just punched threw the hard stuff and didn't want to expand until it hit the gushy stuff. If the bullet acts like this on an animal then it would be a great performing bullet because it would stay small and not waste any energy getting threw the bone and once entering into the vitals be devastating. However This is just from my observation from this one test that may or may not be accurate.

Either way it was neat to see how the bullet acted in different materials and I could see what the bullet did threw each inch of the box

 

[Scot E]

I can see your point, especially on the 1/2 inch plywood. The waferboard was only 1/4 thick I figured that would be more like the animal hide vs bone. But I have pictures that I didn't post of the holes after they had gone threw both boards and the bullet didn't show any expansion passing threw the wood. With both the wafer board and the plywood the bullet didn't expand until it had made it 2-4to inches into the dough.. it SEEMED like it just punched threw the hard stuff and didn't want to expand until it hit the gushy stuff. If the bullet acts like this on an animal then it would be a great performing bullet because it would stay small and not waste any energy getting threw the bone and once entering into the vitals be devastating. However This is just from my observation from this one test that may or may not be accurate.

Either way it was neat to see how the bullet acted in different materials and I could see what the bullet did threw each inch of the box

You are right, that is exactly what they are supposed to do, blow through a few inches of hide and bone then expand!

Thanks for the info.

Scot E.

 

[WildRose]

The antelope or the test media? Reason I ask is the test media looks a lot like tamale masa.

It does kind of have that look doesn't it?

I was definitely thinking of the Antelope though.

 

[WildRose]

I can see your point, especially on the 1/2 inch plywood. The waferboard was only 1/4 thick I figured that would be more like the animal hide vs bone. But I have pictures that I didn't post of the holes after they had gone threw both boards and the bullet didn't show any expansion passing threw the wood. With both the wafer board and the plywood the bullet didn't expand until it had made it 2-4to inches into the dough.. it SEEMED like it just punched threw the hard stuff and didn't want to expand until it hit the gushy stuff. If the bullet acts like this on an animal then it would be a great performing bullet because it would stay small and not waste any energy getting threw the bone and once entering into the vitals be devastating. However This is just from my observation from this one test that may or may not be accurate.

Either way it was neat to see how the bullet acted in different materials and I could see what the bullet did threw each inch of the box

Actually in my mind good expansion in bone is exactly what you want. Hard to run with a shattered shoulder or upper leg that has also been turned into shrapnel causing even more damage through the vitals.

I just don't like how many hollow point bullets break up completely or at least mostly the first time they hit something hard preventing solid penetration.

 

[Wheatgerm]

Actually in my mind good expansion in bone is exactly what you want. Hard to run with a shattered shoulder or upper leg that has also been turned into shrapnel causing even more damage through the vitals.

I just don't like how many hollow point bullets break up completely or at least mostly the first time they hit something hard preventing solid penetration.

Well these hollowpoints did the exact opposite of blowing up the other day, it proved that to me when I shot low and hit that rock. It penetrated 2 inches into the boulder and ill bet there was still 70 grains left of the slug still in tact buried into the rock. Seems to me for a hollow point that bergers hold together pretty good.

As for blowing up on bone your right it would be hard to go far on a busted shoulder. But even harder to go very far if the slug poked threw the shoulder and blew up lungs and heart lol

Everyone will have their own opinions on everything. That'd why we have the selection that's available to us now days. And everything seems to do a pretty dang good job. Its just what someone prefers

 

[WildRose]

Well these hollowpoints did the exact opposite of blowing up the other day, it proved that to me when I shot low and hit that rock. It penetrated 2 inches into the boulder and ill bet there was still 70 grains left of the slug still in tact buried into the rock. Seems to me for a hollow point that bergers hold together pretty good.

As for blowing up on bone your right it would be hard to go far on a busted shoulder. But even harder to go very far if the slug poked threw the shoulder and blew up lungs and heart lol

Everyone will have their own opinions on everything. That'd why we have the selection that's available to us now days. And everything seems to do a pretty dang good job. Its just what someone prefers

Yep, I was pretty impressed with the bullet penetrating that far and not just splattering.

You know though it all boils down to the same essential point we always get back to... .

As long as you put it in the right spot and the bullet gets too the heart, lungs, spine etc you have a very dead animal.

Nothing beats proper shot placement.