berger and no expansion?

[Riverscout]

I understand that the bullet penetrates a couple of inches then fragments. I should have taken pictures with the hide still attached. This deer was shot at a 30 degree angle which could be why the entrance hole looked so big. I have full confidence in this bullet. My rifle loves them and I havn't put anything else down the tube. I probably won't either. I was just trying to gather if my results were the "normal." I'm sure what Eric explained about tearing and blowback is what happened in my situation. Like I said before I was just curious because I have never seen an entrance hole that big in an animal.

I just went and took some pictures. After examining the entrance hole it doesn't look as big as it did on the animal. I guess alot of the hide was pushed into the animal?

The bullet definately did it's job! It pulverized the lungs and detached the heart from the rest of the organs. I am in know way bashing this bullet. I have had great support via emails with berger and the fact that eric is on here shows how good this company is.

 

[Eric Stecker]

Riverscout,

I appreciate your comments and kind words. For the sake of clarification, my comments aren't meant as much for you directly but rather for the many people who read these forums. You brought up a situation that is likely faced by some others who don't post so I wanted to take the opportunity to address your situation.

I take no offense and frankly I appreciate it when shooters share their experiences good or bad. The good experiences help others know what to do and what to expect while the bad experiences help us know what to address and fix. Both are useful.

Regards,
Eric

 

[kstrick]

I was able to take a large elk in MT 2 weeks ago. .300WSM shooting 190 gr Berger VLDs. I have a Huskmaw scope on the gun. Dialed it to 400 yards. Put the crosshairs just behind the shoulder squeezed the trigger and down it went. It rolled down hill about 75 yards and stood up. Once I found it in the scope I could see it was swaying and wobbly. The guide said, hit him again. So I put another round just behind the shoulder again (same side) and down he went. When we gutted him the hole were about 4 inches apart. The top of the heart and great vessels were shredded. The Berger bullet preformed exactly as advertised. The Huskmaw scope worked perfectly as well. Bergers and Huskmaw make a deadly combination.

 

[Southwest Hunter]

I have seen three coues Whitetail taken with the 30 cal 215 hybrid. 186, 566 and 575 yards. All were pass thru shots. The 186 sucked the heat and lungs out the exit hole. all other exits were 1.5 to 2" exit holes. Arizona Elk tags at the end of this month! will report on the performance when I get home.

 

[styngray32]

I just experienced that same problem. Today is 12/23/12 and I shot and harvested a cow elk yesterday. I reload my 300 win mag to the following specs. Winchester brass, CCI primer, 73gr H4831, with the Berger VLD Hunting 168gr. I took the elk from 450 yards and hit it at the 3rd rib. It passed through the lungs and never passed through the other side. As I was skinning the cow I found it under the skin. I have the bullet now. I can send pics if anyone wants to see it. It never expanded. It looks almost new. Am I doing something wrong?

 

[scmacdon]

I just experienced that same problem. Today is 12/23/12 and I shot and harvested a cow elk yesterday. I reload my 300 win mag to the following specs. Winchester brass, CCI primer, 73gr H4831, with the Berger VLD Hunting 168gr. I took the elk from 450 yards and hit it at the 3rd rib. It passed through the lungs and never passed through the other side. As I was skinning the cow I found it under the skin. I have the bullet now. I can send pics if anyone wants to see it. It never expanded. It looks almost new. Am I doing something wrong?

This is my first year using berger bullets. I was using 168 VLDs with a 300 win mag on a Moose at 425 yards. The bullet shattered his front shoulder and he fell down. Had to shoot him at close range to finish him off. I was shooting these bullets all summer out to 800 yards and was impressed by how they work. I have done lots of reading and was going to load some 210 VLDs with H1000 powder. I am not sure what to do now with all the posts of no expansion. I like the bergers but might switch to something else.

 

[barnesuser28]

I just experienced that same problem. Today is 12/23/12 and I shot and harvested a cow elk yesterday. I reload my 300 win mag to the following specs. Winchester brass, CCI primer, 73gr H4831, with the Berger VLD Hunting 168gr. I took the elk from 450 yards and hit it at the 3rd rib. It passed through the lungs and never passed through the other side. As I was skinning the cow I found it under the skin. I have the bullet now. I can send pics if anyone wants to see it. It never expanded. It looks almost new. Am I doing something wrong?

I would like to see the pics. Please email them at [email protected] Thanks!!

 

[Korhil78]

I just experienced that same problem. Today is 12/23/12 and I shot and harvested a cow elk yesterday. I reload my 300 win mag to the following specs. Winchester brass, CCI primer, 73gr H4831, with the Berger VLD Hunting 168gr. I took the elk from 450 yards and hit it at the 3rd rib. It passed through the lungs and never passed through the other side. As I was skinning the cow I found it under the skin. I have the bullet now. I can send pics if anyone wants to see it. It never expanded. It looks almost new. Am I doing something wrong?

If you want..send pics to [email protected].

I will also post the pics on here if you want.

 

[Pdvdh]

Anyone gets pics of the bullet styngray32 found under the hide of his elk - please post photos here.

 

[Korhil78]

I will post them when he sends it.

 

[toddc]

This is my first year using berger bullets. I was using 168 VLDs with a 300 win mag on a Moose at 425 yards. The bullet shattered his front shoulder and he fell down. Had to shoot him at close range to finish him off. I was shooting these bullets all summer out to 800 yards and was impressed by how they work. I have done lots of reading and was going to load some 210 VLDs with H1000 powder. I am not sure what to do now with all the posts of no expansion. I like the bergers but might switch to something else.

If you decide to switch every time someone gripes about bullet performance dont buy more than 1 bullet at a time. Bullet failure threads are very cmmon in this time of the year. All bullets do something weird sooner or later, even the pure copper, unobtanium computer designed death strikers.

 

[BlackStreak]

If you decide to switch every time someone gripes about bullet performance dont buy more than 1 bullet at a time. Bullet failure threads are very cmmon in this time of the year. All bullets do something weird sooner or later, even the pure copper, unobtanium computer designed death strikers.

I agree 100%

 

[WildRose]

Mikeym1a,

Reports of no expansion are very rare but to say that it has never been reported isn't factual. It is very important to us that we get the specifics of this situation. I suggest that either you or the hunter you mention gets in touch with us directly so we can learn all we can. You can email me at [email protected].

In the few reports we've received, we have been unable to get to the root cause of this result. This is primarily due to the infrequency of the occurances. Also, we have been unable to duplicate this result in our testing. Having said that I will offer some thoughts on potential causes.

Using Hunting bullets rather than Target or Tactical bullets (we don't make a 168 gr Tactical so that doesn't apply in this situation) is important. The thicker jacket used in the Target and Tactical bullets has proven to open up and fragment less than the hunting jackets.

Impact velocity is important. The lower the impact velocity, the less expansion and fragmentation will occur. Our Hunting bullets have been shown to open up at 1,800 fps which is low compared to many other options. The fact that you mentioned the range was 200 yards suggests that the impact velocity should have been high enough.

Trimming and repointing Berger Hunting bullets is strongly discouraged. You didn't mention that this was done but I wanted to mention it for others reading this thread. The size of the hollow point affects penetration and expansion. If the tip is repointed to be very tight, it can prevent or significantly reduce expansion.

I look forward to hearing from you so we can do all we can work toward eliminating this from ever happening.

Regards,
Eric

Eric something worth considering... .

While I cant' tell you I've seen this with the Bergers and I haven't shot enough of them at game to give any opinion BUT.

Something I have seen with other bullets regularly especially NBT's is that when impacting at high velocity a great many of them instead of NOT opening turn completely inside out with the base of the bullet then becoming the leading edge and if it did pass through gives the appearance of "no expansion".

Since so often bullets shot on game simply are unrecoverable I seriously wonder if the same is not occurring with the Berger's occasionally leading to the misperception that they had not expanded at all, when they'd done the opposite?

Have ya'll seen any of this with the target VLD's shot into media? Because I simply do not believe that so many of these bullets are not opening at all. The hollow point by design if anything leads to over expansion rather than under expansion in most cases.

 

[WildRose]

For the last 3 years my friend has shot his Elk and killed it each time with a 168 gr berger. Each time he tells me that the bullets had passed all the way through with no expansion and he had to track the Elk down. This year he had thought he missed because he watched the dust fly up from behind the elk, the elk took off and then about 200 yds away it collapsed. Upon seeing the Elk he realized that he did hit the Elk and the bullet had passed all the way through just as it had the other years, with no expansion. He doesn't load his own bullets, another guy does it for him. I've never had any problems like this. I use Berger bullets in 4 different rounds, they have always been perfect. Any ideas as to what is going on? Is this a common issue with Bergers?

Tell your friend that there are only two possible ways to have DRT kills every time and that is to one, hit the CNS directly, or two TWO fracture both shoulders sufficiently that they no longer function.

He either needs to aim better or hit his point of aim better. When you just punch the lungs more often than not the animal will run until it's lungs have filled with blood unless you leave a fist sized exit hole and sometimes even then they will run.

Head, spine, shoulders is the only way to drop them in their tracks every time.