elkaholic
Well-Known Member
Give it a try. Sometimes things work when they shouldn't! It will be an interesting test........rich
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160gr Matrix
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Give it a try. Sometimes things work when they shouldn't! It will be an interesting test........rich
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
No, I'm not absolutely sure, but that is what seems to work for a lot of people. It depends on the individual rifle, bullet, twist combo, but I've always shot low with left to right and high with right to left. That's with right hand twist, of course, which we all have....Rich
I got out yesterday and again this morning. Yesterday the wind was pretty gusty and took some shots trying to figure it out. I ran out of Retumbo so I found an accurate load of h1000 that runs at 2875 in my 6.5-06AI. I did some figuring when I got home and came up with a bc of .680. When I went back out this morning using these numbers and very little wind I was able to make three first round hits on 10" to 18" rocks at 775, 1010, and 1050. I ended up shooting a 3 shot group on the 1010 rock that went sub moa.
barnesuser28
Well-Known Member
I have the targets in hand now and a tape measure and the 52.5 grain load measures about .361" CTC.
Rich, no sir I did not. Actually you just taught me something I had not heard of and will have to add this to my huge bag of stuff to learn. Geesh.
It does make since why my 1500 yard shots in L to R are low. Also the 677 yard shot were really very good. I need a user manual for dummies I guess. If you feel like it explain why the drop and rise please.
Also in the picture with the impacts in the divet there are 4 total. 3 in the dark section and 1 out. Those 3 are about 4 inches apart max. The out 1 is actually only about 5 inches from the center. I have to stop shooting rocks I can not reach. Idiot. Lol.
I think you guys with hot rod 6.5s getting close to 3 might see those higher bc's. they do seem to shoot though.
It does make since why my 1500 yard shots in L to R are low. Also the 677 yard shot were really very good. I need a user manual for dummies I guess. If you feel like it explain why the drop and rise please.
Also in the picture with the impacts in the divet there are 4 total. 3 in the dark section and 1 out. Those 3 are about 4 inches apart max. The out 1 is actually only about 5 inches from the center. I have to stop shooting rocks I can not reach. Idiot. Lol.
I think you guys with hot rod 6.5s getting close to 3 might see those higher bc's. they do seem to shoot though.
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
No, you are no dummie! The first time I heard of that was several years ago when I was talking to an ex fighter pilot who used the bomber sight. He also was the designer of the reticle on the Swarovski scopes (TDS) His name was T.D. Smith, thus the TDS reticle. The last time I spoke with him, he wasn't doing well. He may be gone now? Anyway, The rotation of a bullet with right hand twist tends to drop more when the wind is on the side of the "up" rotation, which would be the left side. Converesly, a right to left wind pushes on the down rotation "right" side and tends to lift more. The twist rate, and some other ballistic factors, affect how much this occurs............Rich
Try shooting with a well dialed in load someday at 1000 yards in zero wind and then try the same load with say a 10 mph crosswind and see what happens. Very revealing!
That is very close to what I have seen. At 3050fps- .72bc works to 1450yds. With a lighter load that should be about 2900fps the drops worked out to .695-.70 @ 1030yds.
My testing so far has been done from one shooting range in one direction and always in some wind (5-20mph). I don't know to what extent that has on the bc numbers I arrive at, but I am glad to see the results that others are getting. We have another place to shoot that offers different terrain and shooting direction. I may have to give it a go and see what happens.
Cliff
liltank
Well-Known Member
I'm just wondering if you are shooting a too slow of a powder. The one guy on here is getting 2875 in a 6.5-06AI. They have to have close to the same case capacity. I would suggest moving up the burn speed rate and try something in the 4831 to H1000 burn rate.
Tank
barnesuser28
Well-Known Member
I think i will give H1000 a try also, i will go from 53.5-58 grains in .5 grain increments with RL33 and 49.5-52.5 with H1000 in .5 g increments.
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azsugarbear
Well-Known Member
I had a chance to go out to the range yesterday. While the primary purpose was to work on my .243, I did load up a few 160 gr. matrix. The goal was just to find the upper end of my pressure curve for future loads. The velocities recorded surprised me by being a little lower than expected:
H1000 51 - 55 grains: 2,606 - 2710 fps
Retumbo 50 - 54 grains: 2,663 - 2735 fps.
No signs of pressure, so I guess I can try a little more next outing. Need to be in the 2,950 fps range to realize any ballistic improvement over my current load.
Rifle is a custom built by Kirby Allen in 6.5-06 AI (40 degree shoulder) with a 26" Lilja 4 groove 1-in-8 twist. Does the velocity sound about right to you?
Maybe I need a faster burning powder? Case capacity seems to be about 60 grains with the 160 matrix seated about 90 thous. off the lands.
H1000 51 - 55 grains: 2,606 - 2710 fps
Retumbo 50 - 54 grains: 2,663 - 2735 fps.
No signs of pressure, so I guess I can try a little more next outing. Need to be in the 2,950 fps range to realize any ballistic improvement over my current load.
Rifle is a custom built by Kirby Allen in 6.5-06 AI (40 degree shoulder) with a 26" Lilja 4 groove 1-in-8 twist. Does the velocity sound about right to you?
Maybe I need a faster burning powder? Case capacity seems to be about 60 grains with the 160 matrix seated about 90 thous. off the lands.
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
With an A.I. you should be able to load 59-60 grains of Retumbo which should get you over 2900'. Retumbo is your best bet........Rich
barnesuser28
Well-Known Member
I was able to make it out again today, i tested RL33, H1000, and confirmed the 52.5 grain retumbo load. The retumbo load measured 2620 fps at 75 yards from the muzzle. The H1000 load went 2554 fps at the same distance and at max pressure (52.5 grains). The RL33 load went 2550 fps at 75 yards from the muzzle at max (58 grains just like we thought). When i was confirming the retumbo load, i had two good shots and trigger breaks then on the third (last) shot i pulled down and right and that opened the group up to like an inch, but the first two measure .162 CTC, i think i am going to stick with the retumbo load and move on to longer ranges. I also brought some milk jugs........
The impact velocity was about 2450 fps (i know, it doesnt represent long range but i wanted to know how they did at closer ranges) and it stopped in the 4th jug, most fragments were caught in the 3rd jug (the largest piece on the right was in the fourth) and the first and second jug were torn into three pieces each! The fragments that i found weighed 29.4 grains, about 18% weight retention, pretty good for that velocity, next weekend i will try to get to the range and shoot one into milk jugs with a case full of trail boss. I also shot some 162 amaxs into the 2 jugs i had left (i had a block of wood behind it), impact velocity was about 2750 fps and it retained 52.3 grains.
Riley
The impact velocity was about 2450 fps (i know, it doesnt represent long range but i wanted to know how they did at closer ranges) and it stopped in the 4th jug, most fragments were caught in the 3rd jug (the largest piece on the right was in the fourth) and the first and second jug were torn into three pieces each! The fragments that i found weighed 29.4 grains, about 18% weight retention, pretty good for that velocity, next weekend i will try to get to the range and shoot one into milk jugs with a case full of trail boss. I also shot some 162 amaxs into the 2 jugs i had left (i had a block of wood behind it), impact velocity was about 2750 fps and it retained 52.3 grains. Riley
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I am doing the cold bore challenge and my first round at 643 with 2850 fps and .650 BC was dead on. Sent a 2nd and it was on as well. We were riding around on the 4wheeler and scouting for bear and goofying on. Good day. Anyway I found a rock at 1400 and my first round was 3 to 4 MOA low, dialed in 39.6 MOA. Sent a 2nd and it hit within a foot of the first. I adjusted and sent two more but the earth around the rock was not revealing POI. Since we couldn't spot POI I gave up on the rock.
I decided to have Ami shoot. We lined up on a snow patch at 743. Two rounds pretty much on, a little low, but within inches of each other. Put her on a rock at 607 and she low there too. She tells me she pushes the rifle at the squeeze. Hmmm so I lined up on a rock at 921 and pinned it.
So I believe my rifle is actually shooting the bullet at 2750 to 2800 and with a .650 to 680 ish BC. At the shorter distances 600 to 900 the difference in solutions is not that great and the bullet still has good POI, at least good enough to kill 1MOA rocks/targets on rocks.
Also since I am shooting ABP of around 23.5 to 24 the bullet is flying pretty easily in the closer ranges. I am bummed a little. I don't think the 160 has an advantage over the 140 in this little case. I might be wrong but the numbers seem to be telling me otherwise. For example the 160 only has 60 ft lbs more energy at 1400 then the 140. Wind seems to be a mute issue as well.
I think this bullet is for the 6.5 heavy hitters. That means I need a new rifle, ha ha
I decided to have Ami shoot. We lined up on a snow patch at 743. Two rounds pretty much on, a little low, but within inches of each other. Put her on a rock at 607 and she low there too. She tells me she pushes the rifle at the squeeze. Hmmm so I lined up on a rock at 921 and pinned it.
So I believe my rifle is actually shooting the bullet at 2750 to 2800 and with a .650 to 680 ish BC. At the shorter distances 600 to 900 the difference in solutions is not that great and the bullet still has good POI, at least good enough to kill 1MOA rocks/targets on rocks.
Also since I am shooting ABP of around 23.5 to 24 the bullet is flying pretty easily in the closer ranges. I am bummed a little. I don't think the 160 has an advantage over the 140 in this little case. I might be wrong but the numbers seem to be telling me otherwise. For example the 160 only has 60 ft lbs more energy at 1400 then the 140. Wind seems to be a mute issue as well.
I think this bullet is for the 6.5 heavy hitters. That means I need a new rifle, ha ha
barnesuser28
Well-Known Member
You bring up some good points, and my numbers (velocity, energy, wind, etc) match your very closely, but i think the biggest point that gives this bullet its edge is the much higher sd ( so more penetration and weight retention) and the thinner (i am assuming) jacket which should give better expansion at low velocities.
