I almost edited my post to include such a beast of a cartridge as you just mentioned.I was just thinking that a 338 Creedmoor would certainly be an effective cartridge.
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Are calibers above 308 and below 375 destined to wither away?
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I was just thinking that a 338 Creedmoor would certainly be an effective cartridge.
I guess guys who shoot that would use vodka in their Koolaid.I almost edited my post to include such a beast of a cartridge as you just mentioned.
MagnumManiac
Well-Known Member
I read every post, I still disagree with your synopsis.
I have, and still use 30 cal for ELR (beyond 1000) so explain the difference using anything else other than 375.
I use 338, 375 & 6.5mm for hunting LR, as well as 7mm, 25 & 27 in limited numbers, not often with these, but do.
As to action size, my wildcats fits in 3.850" actions, sure, I load longer, but no special actions other than true magnum actions are needed, the 416 Rigby case is perfect for this from 7mm up.
The NMI is also perfect in shorter 3.7" actions.
None of what you say is going to wither away, we can't help the 'man-bun' clan choosing tiddlywinks cartridges, like the PRS crowd using the same low ball cartridges…
Also, nothing beats cubes, calibre means little when pushing in excess of 3400fps…
All I know is that 375 Cheytec is a 1/2 MOA round at 2000 yards…. According to the YouTube video I watched.
So I guess we all should be shooting 375 Cheytec cause that seems really impressive to me.Maybe this makes your point? No need for anything other than a 375 CT.
RH300UM
Well-Known Member
It's all about what the consumer wants or what they think they want. It's a marketing driven strategy to get people thinking they want it. The vast majority of the shooting and hunting public are victims of this strategy. It's common place for most all companies selling firearms nowadays. The big 338's don't fit into the propaganda machine for now.
Again only a small percentage of the people who shoot and hunt need to deal with this. Horsepower and the application of it are not the mindset of the masses nowadays.
These are and can be very effective for a large part of what people need for their application. 99% ineffective? I don't think it's that high. Maybe for yourself and some others on this forum.
I think you will see more of the same "development" for years to come as the market demands for more of the same pushes this. Industry mindset is not for the pursuit of pushing "development" but for profit. That's what businesses do mostly.
The world condition limits the potential for components and the ability to push decisions for development of new technologies in this category.
The electronics industry will be able to make the most gains in the future and that will spill over to shooting/hunting industries but states and their respective game agencies are limiting that influx of technology ( my home state of Idaho as 1 example).
The problem most of us( addicts for horsepower) find is the amount gains( velocity with a big heavy, high BC bullet) versus investment
(powder weight, barrel throat wear, barrel lengths, rifle weights) become ever so slightly larger. Meaning the gains become smaller as the investment becomes larger.
Now 98% of the masses are not going to buy that. So the improvements will most likely come from individuals who are willing and able to pay the price for this development.
Me? I'm still chasing the same thing I started out 30 + years ago. Pushing the biggest bullet as fast and accurate as I can make possible! $$$$
Edit: Yes I am an addict and I can live with that.
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Q: Are calibers above 308 and below 375 destined to wither away?
A: No!
A: No!
Not quite sure what you are getting at? Can you please expound a bit more on your comments on small rifles and heavy rifles for long range shooting/hunting??
Yep, and no one needs any approval from anyone ... PERIOD. That's the beauty of having freedom of choice.
You meant with ANYTHING ELSE didn't you?
AussieWriter
Well-Known Member
Shooting long range for hobby or sport will often include the aspect of shooting comfort. That steers the shooter to lighter calibers, smaller cartridges and lighter bullet weights, all governed by bullet flight stability and wind resistance.
There is always a niche for hunters who like to thump game using a little more than the average person. The .338's likely have ownership of that area. The more sleek ballistically superior bulets are already common but the caliber is still firmly stuck on 1:10" which governs the design limits of those extant bullet designs.
As soon as just a single "name" manufacturer brings out an 8:5"-9.0" twist, that caliber will take a leap forward with any cartridge that can accommodate the faster twists with suitable velocities.
Recoil/comfort favors the .338/06 and .338 Winchester cases but I'd exoect a full length case like 8mm Rem, .340 Weatherby or even an Ackleyized hibrid version of the two to gain a fast following.
The existing 265gn and 285 gn Barnes LRX bullets are enticing enough for the hunter and the 300gn Sierra HPBT may tease a few at the gongs.............and then, maybe it's already there? The 1:10" already defines the market?
There is always a niche for hunters who like to thump game using a little more than the average person. The .338's likely have ownership of that area. The more sleek ballistically superior bulets are already common but the caliber is still firmly stuck on 1:10" which governs the design limits of those extant bullet designs.
As soon as just a single "name" manufacturer brings out an 8:5"-9.0" twist, that caliber will take a leap forward with any cartridge that can accommodate the faster twists with suitable velocities.
Recoil/comfort favors the .338/06 and .338 Winchester cases but I'd exoect a full length case like 8mm Rem, .340 Weatherby or even an Ackleyized hibrid version of the two to gain a fast following.
The existing 265gn and 285 gn Barnes LRX bullets are enticing enough for the hunter and the 300gn Sierra HPBT may tease a few at the gongs.............and then, maybe it's already there? The 1:10" already defines the market?
Greatgrandad
Active Member
You avoided my question, so I assume "you" have not killed any large game animals, or maybe even medium, at 1,000 and beyond. I've killed several medium and large beyond 1,000 and even varmints. Some of those were with 338's, and some were with other calibers.
As for shooting 50 cals, I did that for many years on 1 mile to 2k targets. Starting shooting 50's decades ago. I read your posts implying a lot of "theoretical" and not actual experience in shooting at ELR.
Epeeandirk
Member
On the 7th day God and Roy created the 30-378, and the world was complete.
IMHO.
IMHO.
Greatgrandad
Active Member
LOL.....The last 2k shoot I participated in and another I watched were won by a 338LM. Like in all shooting, there is a lot more to shooting ELR than just having a higher BC bullet. The shooter plays the largest part.
Edit to add: If BC was everything, then why aren't 1,000 yard BR matches and records dominated by large bores and their higher BC bullets?
Back to the original question, NO, I do not believe the between calibers will fade away.
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I haven't killed any big game animals past 1,000 yards. In the past 20 years my primary big game has been culling Aoudad sheep in west Texas for a rancher who wants Desert bighorn instead. For that work out to 600 yards a 6.5 140 Berger puts them down quickly. Aoudad are bigger and tougher than deer.
When I was younger it was the 270 vs 30-06 for elk. Both have killed more elk than any 338. The 270 proponent, I can't recall his name right now, said 130 grain killed as well as 150. Now we have those thinking the 223 with 75 gn TMK is big game medicine. I don't agree with that at all but it works often enough to make some believers. Recently a thread here complained that the 140 Berger I use causes too much internal damage. A chest shot caused rupture of the diaphragm and guts making a total mess of the insides. I can't begin to count the times that someone here has said that the 308 215 Berger is devastating on elk at long range.
Given all that why is a 245 Berger launched at 3000 plus not entirely adequate long range elk medicine? Does a 275-300 grain in 338 add much safety margin?
