Brown bear Rifle

[comfisherman]

Oh for the love of all that's decent not the slug argument...

The slug and 10mm debates make me think being mauled sounds not so bad...

 

[WYO300RUM]

Quote from ……Marky_mark
I prefer to not rely on the "professional" beside me. Last one sucked and cost me a monster. Not all guides are good


This is just my opinion….. and should be recognized as such! I think a lot of guides are too "trigger happy", too quick to kill the animal the client paid big money to hunt! If it were my bear hunt….I'd want the guide to be carrying a handgun only or have his hands tied behind his back! memtb

And a little conversation before the hunt

 

[WYO300RUM]

You'ld have to shoot them in equal weight rifles to find out.

The only .375 I've shot was a .375 Weatherby, in a Sako Lightweight Hunter. That's a really lightweight rifle. Too light for the 375 Weatherby. No muzzle brake. Wicked recoil with 285-300gr bullets. Almost knocked me out when the scope slammed into the brim of my plastic eyeglasses. Didn't know where I was momentarily, after the starbursts faded. Would'a joined the half moon club, but the glass frame spread out the impact of the scope tube. I had a 338 Win Mag to compare the recoil to my 375 Wthby. But the 338 Win Mag was a 1.5 lb heavier rifle. My 375 Wthby kicked quite a bit worse.

My buddy poked fun at me after that incident with my 375 Wthby. He was a big guy. 50lbs heavier than me. So I let him shoot it off the bench. I had a pretty good idea what was gonna happen. Drew blood on his forehead and dazed him too.

I shifted that scope tube forward, and then did hunt with the .375 Wthby for a few years. Killed some moose and black bear. But I haven't hunted with it for ~25yrs now.

Since the recoil was so brutal, about 4 years ago I bedded my .375 Wthby in a McMillan carbon fiber stock. Then installed a 4-port muzzle brake. Recoil is now very manageable, even with 300gr bullets.

I hunt the big bears now with a 338 Edge or 338 Lapua AIs. With 5-port muzzle brakes. Good muzzle brakes tame recoil a LOT. The brakes allow me to get recoil comfortable, and shoot with improved accuracy.

I remember in 2000-2001 I bought a Rem 700 BDL Stainless w/laminate stock in 300 RUM. Pretty rifle. I'd been shooting 7 Rem Mag for many years before that. It's recoil didn't bother me in the least. Shot a couple friend's Sako 300 win mag's. I didn't notice much difference between them and 7 mag. 7 mag was a Ruger MKl and later MkII. The first time I shot the 300 RUM . They were 180 gr. Loads. WOW ! I shot 3 shots. Screw this. I called Magnaport . Sent riflr in and had a Magnabrake made for it. He said it would cut recoil 40%. Be about like a 308. He was correct. A dream to shoot. I had the one buddy shoot my RUM with out brake. He said can't be much more than his 300 Winnie. He was surprised. I screwed brake on. He shot it. He said holy s**t ! ( He did same thing with his Ruger Redhawk and my S&W 460) Hello ! Later on he got a Kimber Mtn. rifle in 300 WSM. He said recoil was brutal . Told him to send to Magnaport. He was happy camper after that. There weren't a lot of choices around back then for muzzle brakes if I remember correctly. I love them now. I have them on 300 RUM, 300 Win Mag, Rem 7 Mag and 6.5 PRC.

 

[comfisherman]

Friend of mine lost a rifle when I was in college and needed a substitute. The local place had a blued woodstocked iron sighted 338 rum with some cheesy scroll work on it on the clearance rack for a deal. Track down an FFL to ship it to him in Alaska but couldn't ship ammo through the mail so he ordered dies and I bought a couple of Dusty boxes of ammo down south to shoot and ship the brass up to him. I'll never forget the joy of rattling off 338 Ultra Mag at a range for no reason other than emptying the brass. Did the first box myself and then the second box over several range trips with stupid College friends that didn't know better...

I think that particular rifle ended up somewhere on the Yukon in a bad canoe wreck where a floating case wasn't sealed up and became a not floating case.... I've never heard him say he missed that rifle...

 

[dennisinaz]

The guide and I would have a very serious discussion immediately after his shot! memtb

That discussion is best had BEFORE the hunt, not after the bear is down.

If a bear is going to make it to the alders your guide is going to shoot. Nobody wants to dig a wounded bear out of that crap.
Since this thread started i drew a brown bear permit on the East side of Kodiak; spring 2024. It is a really good hunt. I would really like to hunt with my 458 but will probably use my 340. Whomever is with me will have a rifle and will get to make followup shots.

I know several bear guides. 2 of them use 35 Whelans. Again, there is a big difference between having a good guide beside you when shooting and doing it on your own. The guides i talk to all hate it when a guy shows up with a new magnum that he bought for the hunt. You are not going to impress a 1500 pound bear with your 375. Just not going to happen. It is a better stopping rifle than the 30-06 but those 30s with a 200 grain bullet are going to work well.

 

[BigDon]

I have followed this thread, not because I have any experience or any chance of ever hunting a Brown bear, but because I once did dreamed about it and wanted to see what experienced brown bear hunters said.
Years ago I thought I could affort to take my son to cape buffalo and and Brown bear hunts. We studied, talked to guides and other hunters and got two M70 CRF 375 H&H topped with 1.5-5 Leupold on QD rings and kept iron sights. We developed loads and practiced. Them 375 H&H push hard, not kick, but push. Then life happened. We did managed a SA hunt, but plains game. Now we just like to read the stories of others, no way I can afford to pay for a brown bear hunt.
Anyways, most of the guides we talked to, said, pick a 30 cal or larger rifle you can put three rounds on target in short time.
Personally, I would not take anything less than a 338WM, and I have heard the stories of the Eskimo woman using a 223.
I am just reading, and and enjoying the opinions.

I have a theory on this cartridge selection question. Since I've hunted both Africa and the Arctic climates, I believe the cartridge requirements differ between the two. Africa = warm to hot weather, usually. Arctic = cold. So I use 'tropical' designs in Africa, (416 Rigby, 375 H&H) and cold designs in the Arctic - 416 Remington and 375 Ruger. There is a difference, and it can make a difference in big, biting animals. When it's time. - you really want those big boys to fire!

 

[CA48]

I have a theory on this cartridge selection question. Since I've hunted both Africa and the Arctic climates, I believe the cartridge requirements differ between the two. Africa = warm to hot weather, usually. Arctic = cold. So I use 'tropical' designs in Africa, (416 Rigby, 375 H&H) and cold designs in the Arctic - 416 Remington and 375 Ruger. There is a difference, and it can make a difference in big, biting animals. When it's time. - you really want those big boys to fire!

Can you elaborate on what attributes each case design offers to make it more ideal for cold vs warm climates

 

[BigDon]

Can you elaborate on what attributes each case design offers to make it more ideal for cold vs warm climates

It is primarily powder choices by the ammo manufacturer + plus the pressure strategy of the cartridge designer. Those old Africa cartridges were built right after the end of the black powder era. Pressures had to be low. The guns weren't built with modern materials. This is the same issue with old and new 45/70 guns. There is 45/70 ammo for old school guns and newer ammo for guns like the Marlin Guide guns. The 416 REM and 375R are loaded to much higher pressures - and will reliably light in cold weather.

 

[asd9055]

It is primarily powder choices by the ammo manufacturer + plus the pressure strategy of the cartridge designer. Those old Africa cartridges were built right after the end of the black powder era. Pressures had to be low. The guns weren't built with modern materials. This is the same issue with old and new 45/70 guns. There is 45/70 ammo for old school guns and newer ammo for guns like the Marlin Guide guns. The 416 REM and 375R are loaded to much higher pressures - and will reliably light in cold weather.

I may not know what I am talking about, but I think you just defeated your own argument. A modern 45/70 vs an old one, is not different than a modern 375H&H than an old one. Beter materials, machining, and depending on what action you get, much higher pressure. That is just based on your premise.

 

[BigDon]

I may not know what I am talking about, but I think you just defeated your own argument. A modern 45/70 vs an old one, is not different than a modern 375H&H than an old one. Beter materials, machining, and depending on what action you get, much higher pressure. That is just based on your premise.

What you missed, though, is that the old African stuff is still loaded for the old African guns, not 'new' ones.

 

[asd9055]

What you missed, though, is that the old African stuff is still loaded for the old African guns, not 'new' ones.

Not if you load your own, which a lot of us do. I have never hunted with factory ammo in any of my magnum rifles

 

[BigDon]

Not if you load your own, which a lot of us do. I have never hunted with factory ammo in any of my magnum rifles

Then you've got it covered!

 

[memtb]

What you missed, though, is that the old African stuff is still loaded for the old African guns, not 'new' ones.

I'm reasonably certain that these cartridges are still loaded to lower pressures to be "safe" in older firearms…..but, using modern components. Reliable ignition should be a non-issue! JMO memtb

 

[dennisinaz]

I have a theory on this cartridge selection question. Since I've hunted both Africa and the Arctic climates, I believe the cartridge requirements differ between the two. Africa = warm to hot weather, usually. Arctic = cold. So I use 'tropical' designs in Africa, (416 Rigby, 375 H&H) and cold designs in the Arctic - 416 Remington and 375 Ruger. There is a difference, and it can make a difference in big, biting animals. When it's time. - you really want those big boys to fire!