Wolves poisoned in Oregon

[Outdoorplay]

LMAO, ok let's just look at history, why did we not have wolves in the lower 48??? because they decimated the other populations of animals and the government paid $2 an ear until they were eradicated....
its a proven fact that F&G has done more harm to our hunting and fishing, than they have ever helped, this is just one more example.

KILL THEM, KILL EVERY F%$#@ ONE OF THEM. ok to leave them alone in very remote spots, but shot on-site outside of those areas, as they have no rules on where they will migrate to.

 

[C-130 Dude]

Not to protect your dog its not

I had a wolf in my yard, the wolf had my dog backed up and my fog was scared shitless. The choices were few for me as shooting a wolf was against the law…

Not to protect your dog its not

Yup. My dog, my family. Period. If you can't figure that out well, too bad. I would have taken the shot.

 

[bozoben]

Montana. In one of its many bustling metropolises.

No doubt Bozeman or Missoula..

 

[jessej]

 

[Muddyboots]

We can disagree to disagree but let's not turn this into a show for Len to kick someone out of his Living Room. Name calling because someone disagrees is about as low as it gets. We can do better than that on LRH.

 

[338weatherby]

Several Years ago, Idaho Fish & Game was trying to substanciate REASONS WHY, they should be, Legally Hunted ( Controlled ), in Idaho to the Federal Govm'nt and the Estimated Number of Dead Elk, THEN, was put at, 50,000, by our F & G. I added another 10,000 Estimated dead, since several years, had gone by. I might possibly be off, a couple of thousand Wolves, on the high side ? Idaho WAS, the Number 3, BEST Elk hunting state, in the USA,.. PRE- 1998 !
UN-less they Dynamite, the Dens and Poison them, like what, was done at, the turn of the Century, "we" will NEVER be, rid of them.
The IMPORTED, Canadian Tundra Wolves from, the Yukon Territory, are now in,.. Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Oregon, Washington, Northern California and SOON to BE, IN,.. Colorado ! From what I understand, they are having Wolf "Problem's" eating Deer in Michigan and Minnesota.
I think they might be, the Original Strain of, Timber Wolves, tho ??? OR, they may have, migrated down from, Canada ( I'm NOT sure )

I believe most of ours here in MN are the originals. In fact, some of ours were trapped and brought to the Rocky's. We have WAY too many. Back in late 90's the local warden and I had a great conversation about them. He wasn't on board with the state. He told me the known number in his district and the neighboring was 2000. The state claimed 1500 at the time. Now the state is claiming 2500-3000. That is a fraction of what is here. They are devistating our deer herd. There were bounties on them up until 1971 or '72 if I remember correctly. May grandpa and dad would mention how they were always shot on site. Through the 80's people would be surprised to ever see one. Now, it's no longer surprising. Go into any patch of woods an hour or two North of the cities and you'll see tracks or crap. We really need a season again.

 

[david g ranes]

Mongoloid

You should never use that term I'm sure some one on this forum either has a child or knows someone that does have a child inflicted with it and people that can't respect that is the reasons abortions shouldn't be outlawed. David

 

[Allen Lone wolf]

I would submit for consideration that we do not have a 'wolf' problem any more than we have a wild horse problem here in the US. Wolves kill. It is a big part of what they do and they are good at it. Horses eat and they are very good at what they do. The problem stems from having or allowing unregulated growth of some animal populations in an ecosystem where the growth of other animal species is heavily regulated. Too many horses or wolves can shift the balance in the ecosystem to the detriment of the other species. Different people or groups desire different things from nature and our wild lands. Finding a compromise is key to finding that new balance. As hunters and conservationists, we agreed upon a compromise with the reintroduction of wolves and what we were willing to sacrifice. When those objectives were reached, the other side (pro-wolf coalition? - not sure what to call them) suddenly decided to try and force a new compromise with us by hauling everyone back into court and starting the negotiations all over again. To my mind, the other side was negotiating in bad faith. Hence, the people problem. The wolves are simply stuck in the middle - doing what they always do. Predators kill. I have no problem with any of them. However, I do have a problem with them when their numbers are allowed to go uncheked.

Regarding the poisoning of wolves, I must admit that it troubles me. From what little I know about poison, it is a painful, terrible way to die. Shooting them would probably be more humane. But if we embrace such ideas, then just like poisoning, we find ourselves advocating for taking action outside of the law. We cannot condemn so-called animal rights activists for doing illegal things (examples: liberating animals from lab facilities or interrupting legal hunts) and then grin and pat ourselves on the back for doing the same - feeling that our actions are justified and theirs are not. In the public eye (which this forum is), we need to rise above such conduct by supporting the laws of the land. If we disagree with the law, then we work to change it. It is painful for me to watch how slowly the wheels of justice turn and how the pro-wolf coalition uses the courts to tie up state governments from carrying out good game management programs. But it is the system I have agreed to live under.

At the turn of the last century (1900's), my great-grandfather was a forest ranger living in eastern AZ with his family. Hunting was simply a part of life for them. It's what you did to feed the family. Part of his duties as a forest ranger included assisting/hosting workers from other government agencies coming to that part of the country. His son (my grandfather) was a pre-teenager when a young man came to stay with them. This man's job was to remove the last of the wolves left in AZ. He was very good at his job and my grandfather was very taken with him. His knowledge of nature seemed to be encyclopedic. The name of the contract wolf killer was Aldo Leupold. Through the years, my grandfather followed his career from contract killer, to associate member of the Boone & Crocket Club to professor of Game Management at the University of Wisconsin. Because of his dealings with Aldo, my grandfather came to understand that being a conservationist and a hunter were not mutually exclusive. In turn, he taught me that everything has it's place and removing or adding anything to the ecosystem upsets a delicate balance.

I believe we need wolves, coyotes, grizzly bears and wild horses. The only real question is where and how many. That determination must be made by people. Hence, we have a people problem. A conflict among humans. Let's keep the blame with us (or the other side - depending on your point of view) and not direct our vitriol and anger at the poor animals that seem to get caught up in the middle for being nothing more than what God made them.

Amen!

 

[LkeAF]

Like I said before, care should be taken when the use of such methods are done. But sorry to tell you but you are wrong on where the responsablity lies. The law is on the landowner and trappers side on these matters. Yes I have dogs and yes the eat all sorts of crap, they don't discriminate and yes I spray for bugs and put rat bait in the sheds. If someones dog comes on my land and gets in a shed and gets sick it's not my responsablity.

I'm talking about public land. And I don't care about the law. What the law says will be irrelevant to that poor SOS when he comes back to check that trap/bait.

 

[Ol' Red]

Ain't no need for name callin! Major Pain. Gentlemen - Have a good day.

 

[jbs2014]

Putting collars on dogs, in ice chests, trains, semis, etc all good but I know a better place to put them, without lube, and that's with the folks (Libs) that created the problem!!

This issue was solved decades ago for a reason and those Trust Finders needed a purpose in life so they started the problem all over! JMO

Awesome!!!

 

[jbs2014]

Should give the $
80,000 to whomever did this!

That and 8lbs of Retumbo

 

[D$tring]

We now have wolves in LP of Michigan, confirmed by DNR by DNA of scat snd trail camera verification. We have a small huntable limited draw once in lifetime Elk herd in LP which one has to wonder what will happen once packs develop.

Biologist just don't seem to get or don't care how expansive wolves (plug in any animal) can be. Land areas are not "glass aquariums" with defined impenetrable boundaries. Wolves will naturally expand their ranges and its lunacy to think we can "manage" any free ranging population animal under any circumstance. This narcissistic arrogance is prevalent in virtually any so called game management program and is laughable at how "man" believes is in control of how nature behaves and evolves.

I often wonder if biologist need to be educated in "Chaos Theory" relative to game management.

"Small differences in initial conditions, such as those due to errors in measurements or due to rounding errors in numerical computation, can yield widely diverging outcomes for such dynamical systems, rendering long-term prediction of their behavior impossible in general.This can happen even though these systems are deterministic, meaning that their future behavior follows a unique evolution and is fully determined by their initial conditions, with no random elements involved. In other words, the deterministic nature of these systems does not make them predictable."

MI DNR along with adjacent Lake Michigan border states seem to think this "aquarium" can be managed like a simple mass balance. Salmon, lake trout, steelhead, browns, etc populations ebb and flow in accordance to so many uncontrollable variables but yet we seem to think " my computer model" is in full control. We seem to think we have "supreme" control over species as if we put them here.

Add in politics and our game management narcissistic behavior becomes untenable which is the description of wolf management.

Amen hallelujah! They also think we aren't part of the system. They don't realize whether people hunt or not, they are a predator, just by living in space that was once, is currently, or could be inhabited by a wild animal(s). They want to arrogantly and ignorantly think they can control the system while remaining outside of it. It is impossible; for even observing the system wields and immeasurable influence on it. It is fine for wolves to wipe out elk or deer in an area and then starve to death, to them that is the life cycle. It is okay for a bear another apex predator to kill a wolf or vice versa, or to push one out of an area. But the same people feel that it is not okay for man (another apex predator) to push wolves out of a system and wield influence therein by judiciously managing deer and elk as a renewable natural resource. Big population ebbs and flows with near extinction events are okay if wild animals do it, but if man inhibits that cycle and tries to even out the wild swings and to manage the system for optimum numbers and health of all animals within that system, that is bad. The scientists, forget that the science extends past where they want to define it. The only explanation is that it is power and control driven (politics).

 

[sp6x6]

Ive talked about this before. The original wolf studies and wolf manager specialist stayed on our property in the NFork of the flathead, bordering Canada.This is still in my family in a round about way. She caretaker our place 60 miles out of town and of grid in winter.When I was a younger man I worked as a carpenter and many friends I hunted with hunted this area.As wolf numbers increased elk numbers dropped.I didn't think much of it ,didn't hunt there.But the wolfs then moved to the Middle fork as did other hunter due to lake of game.This is a mostly wilderness roadless area.Hard work and you would get a elk or nice muley.Fast forward, Ive hunted multiple states and other countries.I first hand saw the elk numbers wiped out in nwMT and panhandle of ID.The recovery number was 300 each for both states, reached very quickly.Now over 1200 each. In MT think you can have 5 tags and trap and snare.There was no increase of harvest this year.Im out 50=60 days a year and see all game, even 3 wolverines.My luck Ive never got a shot off at a wolf and put in 100's of hrs hunting them.I just have bad luck with them.In the wilderness thick timber they are pretty much impossible to control with hunting.I can't even hunt near my home anymore because its a waste of time.Meanwhile we have excess of elk on the east side.Theres almost no elk on are wintering range where you could drive up and see hundreds.Its SAD.