Winter Curiosity

[liltank]

So I have seen American Sniper (Awesome flick), and of course the bad guy uses an AK-74 sniper system which uses the 7.62x54. It got me thinking if it is a better cartridge than a .308. When you look at the casing, there is a size difference and a considerable taper. We took some measurements and H2O tests. The 7.62x54 holds 66.1grns or H2Owhere the .308 (My RWS brass) holds 56.7 grains of H2O. So there is a 10 grain difference (Rounding up for you guys that like to be particular .... ok 9grns) in water weight. So what would be the performance difference with a modern action, barrel, using .308 bullets in a .308 barrel (instead of .310 or .311), with matching dies? How much better would it be if you were to Ackley that sucker and knock the taper out, sharpen the shoulder, and use up a little bit of that long neck it has in comparison to the .308? Hence the title ;D!Winter kills me, too much thinking time!!!!

Tank

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

So I have seen American Sniper (Awesome flick), and of course the bad guy uses an AK-74 sniper system which uses the 7.62x54. It got me thinking if it is a better cartridge than a .308. When you look at the casing, there is a size difference and a considerable taper. We took some measurements and H2O tests. The 7.62x54 holds 66.1grns or H2Owhere the .308 (My RWS brass) holds 56.7 grains of H2O. So there is a 10 grain difference (Rounding up for you guys that like to be particular .... ok 9grns) in water weight. So what would be the performance difference with a modern action, barrel, using .308 bullets in a .308 barrel (instead of .310 or .311), with matching dies? How much better would it be if you were to Ackley that sucker and knock the taper out, sharpen the shoulder, and use up a little bit of that long neck it has in comparison to the .308? Hence the title ;D!Winter kills me, too much thinking time!!!!

Tank

the 7.62x54 will split the goal posts between the 308 and '06. That is a good place for a standard cartridge to be. I wouldn't put a lot of $$ into any of the rifles the 7.62x54 is available in; they are mostly all barn doors with holes in them. I'll own one one of these days (my uncle has a couple of mosen nagent rifles and I've fired them a bit), but I'm waiting to find a rather clean one that wasn't a war time build. I may actually buy a Winchester 95 musket instead though, if I can ever afford one. That is probably one of the best made rifles ever available in the cal..

 

[liltank]

the 7.62x54 will split the goal posts between the 308 and '06. That is a good place for a standard cartridge to be. I wouldn't put a lot of $$ into any of the rifles the 7.62x54 is available in; they are mostly all barn doors with holes in them. I'll own one one of these days (my uncle has a couple of mosen nagent rifles and I've fired them a bit), but I'm waiting to find a rather clean one that wasn't a war time build. I may actually buy a Winchester 95 musket instead though, if I can ever afford one. That is probably one of the best made rifles ever available in the cal..

It's funny you mention the quality... Or lack there of, of rifles. I saw on accurate shooter.com a Mosin that a guy completely rebuilt from the ground up. Shot really well. You should look it up on that site.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

It's funny you mention the quality... Or lack there of, of rifles. I saw on accurate shooter.com a Mosin that a guy completely rebuilt from the ground up. Shot really well. You should look it up on that site.

I'm not saying they can't shoot, but they have a lot of deficiencies that modern rifles simply do not have. I've seen worked over 7.62's they can do it, but they are a barn door with paint on them then.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

https://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100000754

 

[liltank]

Brain fart alert!!! It's a dragonov, not an AK-74.

 

[barefooter56]

liltank,
That cartridge will shoot. Russian and German snipers used the Moisin-Nagant rifles and the 7.62x54 ammunition. Especially the round that had the explosive bullet loaded in it. The were NO Geneva convention rules on the Eastern front. The Germans even preferred that rifle / cartridge combination after they were issued Mauser sniper rifles late in the war. It would be fun to see what the guy on ACCURATE SHOOTER does in competition against the .308. Hope he reports back!

 

[liltank]

liltank,
That cartridge will shoot. Russian and German snipers used the Moisin-Nagant rifles and the 7.62x54 ammunition. Especially the round that had the explosive bullet loaded in it. The were NO Geneva convention rules on the Eastern front. The Germans even preferred that rifle / cartridge combination after they were issued Mauser sniper rifles late in the war. It would be fun to see what the guy on ACCURATE SHOOTER does in competition against the .308. Hope he reports back!

You know, I tried finding that article and couldn't find it. The way a mowing should have been built was the title I think. Oh well. Thinking a good action like a Remington or Savage would work well. The BC on the 174 .311 SMK isn't bad compared to the 175 SMK. Sti I would like to see what the cartridge would do with a good action, barrel in .308, and some h4350 w/ 185 juggernauts.

 

[barefooter56]

liltank,
Actually I read it in a book actually written by a German sniper that survived the eastern front and the war. I cant recall the title though now. It was a great read! Remember! Its a rimmed cartridge! Of the two Remington may be the best choice just due to that. Contact Dave Kiff at Pacific Tool to see if hes done a replacement bolt or if he has an idea what it would take For the 7.62x54.

 

[novaman64]

liltank,
Actually I read it in a book actually written by a German sniper that survived the eastern front and the war. I cant recall the title though now. It was a great read! Remember! Its a rimmed cartridge! Of the two Remington may be the best choice just due to that. Contact Dave Kiff at Pacific Tool to see if hes done a replacement bolt or if he has an idea what it would take For the 7.62x54.

Any disadvantage to it being a rimmed cartridge? Just feeding in a repeater would be problematic? BTW, saw the screen name... Barefooter as in barefoot water skiing????

 

[liltank]

Any disadvantage to it being a rimmed cartridge? Just feeding in a repeater would be problematic? BTW, saw the screen name... Barefooter as in barefoot water skiing????

I wouldn't see any disadvantage being rimmed. Shoot, all of our classic levers are rimmed and they where and are very accurate. The only issue I see is the feeding issue.

 

[barefooter56]

novaman64, liltank
Only issue would be maybe getting a bolt face and feeding like liltank said. that's all. And yep, in my youth I did barefoot, trick, slalom and some jumping.

 

[novaman64]

novaman64, liltank
Only issue would be maybe getting a bolt face and feeding like liltank said. that's all. And yep, in my youth I did barefoot, trick, slalom and some jumping.

Only rimmed cartridge I have experience with is my old 30-30, but its a tube mag so...

Awesome, not many people foot anymore... This is back in Oct, havent been able to get out this winter, dry suit has torn seals and Im doing the top end on my Sanger...

 

[barefooter56]

Nice run !! We learned behind a 100hp Johnson on a tri hull Glastron 16 foot. The Ski Supreme came later. When someone asks me how to prepare for bare-footing I tell them to stand in a door way and have the door slammed in their face LOL!! At 58 a fall would probably cripple me.