Re: Wilcat Bullets...Why haven\'t BC\'s been posted?
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I ordered my first box a week ago today.
225gr ULDRBBT in .308
Richard said bc should be around .740
to put that in prespective...
Berger 210gr .640
SMK 220gr .655
Smk 240gr .711
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Hey thats my post! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The simple fact is that nobody is willing to spend $5 to answer all questions is pretty sad.
You can't get data from approximations, or dumbed down techniques. You have to have the equipment, or your data is not of high enough quality to be discussed. Period. No offense to Len, or all of the excellent shooters on this site, but from the technical side, this is not BRC, and a good number of the shooters who are most knowlegable in the things we are discussing are no longer present to curb the ignorance of some topics.
If this were being discussed a year ago, or on BRC today, it would have ended under a mountain of technical data, and those considering these bullets would be able to compare them on a basic- BC to BC level.
I will include myself in that ignorant group on some topics.
I am not a physics instructor, and I am not an expert on all things bullets, but I know enough to know that those of you who are believing all of this are being fed bull. Dollars, not hundreds of dollars, not hours of time but freaking dollars will settle all of this, and those that are interested get nothing but but guesses, and round about half answers based on unscientific methods and means because nobody praising these bullets actually cares. Really sad.
With JLK now leaving the market place, there is a demand for LR bullets of high quality. Not having data will lead many customers from richard to others like berger. Not untill and unless somebody starts winning major competitions with these bullets will there be any further research I fear.
You may be right kirby, in 6 months there will probably be more shooters from this forum shooting rifles you put together. And they may be loving the performance of Richards bullets, but intill there is some hard data on their performance (from an external ballistics perspective... I saw all of the critters you shot with them) all of the rest does not matter.
That "three digit freaking number" is what sets these bullets apart from their competitors to many shooters.
If not, the question about that number would not have been used in the headline of this thread.
That number has to be measured.
Not guessed.
Not approximated from the die providers.
Not reverse engineered from drop data.
Not reverse engineered from clicking comeups
It has to be measured.
If you people can't understand that (for $5) then you are not as smart as I gave you all credit for.
I am still amazed that you, Kirby, would rather spend the time and energy you have to write and post all of the excuses of why it is that a BC is not really nessicary instead of saying to yourself "if im building rifles for customers, and telling them to use these bullets, and I really do think these bullets are absolutely wonderful, maybe I should spend couple of dollars and see if what im saying is BS or not" You are smarter than this if you can screw together the rifles man shooters are touting on this board. Why won't you, the major promoter on this board step up?
As for...[ QUOTE ]
I will even buy them for testing and not ask for FREEBIES!!
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You know that I was planning to pay for the bullets I was having tested. If that route was still avalable, it is one I would persue despite having enough bullets on the shelf to burn out the barrel I would be firing them from.
Lerch, in response to your "Scientific data my redneck butt" comment, I figure that since we are only 30 miles appart, I might mention I live on a ranch, and living in the country, or as Jeff Foxworthy puts it have a "glorious absence of sophistication" does not mean you have to say "well if it worked up there by Canada its good enough for me"
Better, economical choices exist.
4ked,
no quarrel with your post man, I just see BC as something that can be measured (like weight) as opposed to something that is more or less objective, like taste. Thats all. No ill will meant towards you, or anybody else in this discussion for that matter I know that you are waiting on some wildcats to shoot, and Im looking forward to seeing how they shoot... [ QUOTE ]
Lastly, You are not the center of the universe. You don't know where he wants to take his business.You don't know why he has stopped offering any BCs. (BTW thanks, now none of us can get him to even suggest a starting point. And I don't blame him.) I know him to be a generous man. I know him to be an honest man. I know him to be a hard working man. And you know what? I'm not going to back those BOLD CLAIMS up with even one example for you because I don't have to. If you don't believe what I say about him. WHO CARES?
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I am not the center of the universe, and I don't know where he wants to take his business, I do however believe that the thread a few months ago lead to termination of circulating the BCs provided by the die mfgs. Ive apoligized publically about all of that before. When I posted the initial thread I was after measured BCs, not out to put a stop to the circulation of approximate BCs. I have no doubt that he is an honest, and generous man. Being a rancher, I guarantee that I can understand how much work it is to run a farm. Hardworking is required.
I have never attacked Richards character.
I have never attacked the quality of the bullets Richard puts out.
What I did do, am continuing to do, and will continue to do is make people aware of the fact that its not difficult to get these bullets tested. There is a demand for real, measured data on these bullets at the moment because there are claims of great perforance, but no real data to be found. Members here and elsewhere have offered to provide this data for the cost of 20 bullets... As for marketing being an expense of business, thats just it. For most it is. But for right now, at least as far as an accurate BC is concerned, its basically free. it just blows my mind that people would actually argue over something that can be so easily tested for so little expense!
I was the first to offer bullets for testing when I was able to get them. Firstly for my own use, and secondly to put an actual number to the bullet. Could you imagine the intrest Richard would have if his ULD RBBT bullets have the BCs claimed? Thats free advertising!
You guys can stop defending Richard! I am not saying he is a bad guy, nor have I heard anybody else claim such. All of my dealings with him indicate that your opinions of his character are spot on. I would just like some accurate data to be avalable. And thats it.
ps. this extreme anal retentiveness in terms of "guestimated I think" numbers is from my other hobby.
web page
This experimental rocket motor produced 1194Newton seconds of thrust when I fired it last month.
You know how I know that?
I measured it!
And with just the right amount of non-diplomacy! Could have used a little more "non" though.
