B.D.C. reticles and 1st and 2nd focal plane

[Huntaddict]

I only use FFP scopes now and for the past maybe 20 years, your image as others have said change and along with the reticle, so needing a BDC is a waste of time, just shoot at your yardages and dial up or just use the hash marks, those will be your BDC, so easy, FFP scope with VHR Variable Hunter Reticle, This is the ones I use, check them out, their awesome and unreal how good the glass and they have all the goodies. One sale now around $400 large numbers on the turrets, I have never missed with these scopes, really, unless you wish to spend thousands for the same thing.

Yeah I am with you. Every single scope I have is an FFP now. Maybe its old habit as I find myself dialing elevation past 300 yards nearly 99% of the time. I do use the windage hash marks more frequently but that also has a limit - about 500 yards of "call." After that, I dial windage as well. If you plan to dial 100% of the time for everything, a guy might be ok with a SFP scope.

 

[mightyman]

Wow… so much info and experience on these scopes!
I am impressed and… lost.. but also thinking how in the world did i ever shoot a deer… or anything for that matter with an ole Remington Model 78, 243 at 300 yards with the Tasco World Class 3-9x40 scope and factory ammo!
Must have been pure luck… as it is for me today at 70 years old.

 

[Stonyman88]

Wow… so much info and experience on these scopes!
I am impressed and… lost.. but also thinking how in the world did i ever shoot a deer… or anything for that matter with an ole Remington Model 78, 243 at 300 yards with the Tasco World Class 3-9x40 scope and factory ammo!
Must have been pure luck… as it is for me today at 70 years old.

Not pure luck, we were good shots, but now days why not take advantage of progress and great scopes, I really like My Arken's 6-24 FFP they have all the options you want, Zero lock and one tiny dot in the reticle, not bulky cross hairs.

EPL-4 6-24X50 FFP

 

[Mike Matteson]

Following!

 

[Huntaddict]

Wow… so much info and experience on these scopes!
I am impressed and… lost.. but also thinking how in the world did i ever shoot a deer… or anything for that matter with an ole Remington Model 78, 243 at 300 yards with the Tasco World Class 3-9x40 scope and factory ammo!
Must have been pure luck… as it is for me today at 70 years old.

Bahaha, its easy to get analysis paralysis.

I am with you, thinking back to being 16 with no money, being able to scrape up enough to buy a used Model 70 in 30-06 and shooting box 180s at my first elk with a 4x weaver. Don't know exactly how far the shot was, couldn't afford a range finder LOL

 

[SSG Graybush]

As stated in the post I would like to know what happens to your multiple aim points when changing the power . Example: Suppose you sighted in the center cross wire at 100 yds at 10 power the other 3 aim points just happened to fall sighted in at 175, 250, & 325. You did this exact same thing with 2 different scopes both 4-20 power one first & one second focal plane. What happens when the power is changed to say 20 power? Forget about the cross hair being hard to see at low power that's not part of my question here! Will all non center aim points be off the original distances sighted for in : both scopes? only one scope? Or both scopes? If one scope remains sighted correctly at all aim point distances which will it be? I've never used a first focal scope before and know zero about how they function and i like the bdc type reticles! Or at the very least 2 aim points with the duplex type reticle thanks Tribb

On sfp scopes the reticle holdover marks usually work at max magnification. FFP scopes the subtensions are always correct. BDC reticles suck imo, except for a few AR/223/556 ones. Learn to use moa or mil reticles, pick one and stick with it. I prefer mil. Bdc reticles are not accurate enough imo.
Learn to use a good Ballistic app as well.
As far as ffp reticle getting small on minimum magnification, thats what illumination is for, to help you find your aim point on low mag in dark woods.
FFP is the way to go imo. I have forgotten the scope wasn't on max mag and used the reticle for holdover and missed due to subtensions being off on a sfp scope.
Sfp is ok for LPVO on cqb weapons and target shooting where a thin reticle helps accuracy.
If your gonna use a bdc reticle and reload, you can try to tailor your rounds to match the trajectory, but it's never perfect. That's why imo it's better to just use a mil reticle and learn holdovers for that specific round.

 

[Huntaddict]

On sfp scopes the reticle holdover marks usually work at max magnification. FFP scopes the subtensions are always correct. BDC reticles suck imo, except for a few AR/223/556 ones. Learn to use moa or mil reticles, pick one and stick with it. I prefer mil. Bdc reticles are not accurate enough imo.
Learn to use a good Ballistic app as well.
As far as ffp reticle getting small on minimum magnification, thats what illumination is for, to help you find your aim point on low mag in dark woods.
FFP is the way to go imo. I have forgotten the scope wasn't on max mag and used the reticle for holdover and missed due to subtensions being off on a sfp scope.
Sfp is ok for LPVO on cqb weapons and target shooting where a thin reticle helps accuracy.
If your gonna use a bdc reticle and reload, you can try to tailor your rounds to match the trajectory, but it's never perfect. That's why imo it's better to just use a mil reticle and learn holdovers for that specific round.

Agree - BDCs might be good for a Mzl ldr but outside of that, they had their day and I personally think they are obsolete at this point.

I put "custom" turrets in the same category - if you hunt one spot out of a blind and never anywhere else, fine. If you you are going to anywhere else and wanna hunt LR - you will need to buy multiples of them and then they still might not be right. ESPECIALLY with box ammo. Save that money and buy a better scope.

 

[grbb]

To put a finer point on this, neither scope loses accuracy but the correct zero yardages change on a second focal plane scope for the stadia marks or dots but not for the main crosshair.

Most scope companies, such as Leupold, Bushnell, and Sightron will provide you the relevant MOA subtension values for some or all of the power settings. However, the relationship for the change in the MOA subtension value is constant and works in an inverse manner; i.e., as the power setting goes down, the MOA value goes up. For example if, the scope is a 4-12 with a stadia mark every 2 MOA when set at 12 power; then those 2 MOA stadia marks become 3 MOA at 8 power and 6 MOA marks at 4 power because 12 is 1.5 greater than 8 and 3 times greater than 4. So the formula is divide high power setting by the low power setting and use that numeric value to multiply the "baseline MOA" value.

Is this independent of your zero point reference? i.e. 100 yd zero?

 

[SSG Graybush]

I only use Second Focal Plane scopes because I zero my scopes at 200 yards and know the drop at 300yds and beyond that I only use a laser range finder and turn the dials. I know that there are specific applications where only a First Focal Plane scope is useful but for hunting I've never understood the whole need for FFP.

I get the whole chest size thing but to me that's pretty inaccurate and I'm not about "good enough" in ranging game. I want to know precisely how far game is from me if it's far enough that bullet drop can become an issue.

I owned a FFP NX8 4-32 scope and found it useless at low power because the reticle nearly disappeared and I couldn't imagine it working for me in a low light situation or one where a quick up close shot would be needed but I'm primarily a hunter and will never compete.

The need for ffp reticles is the reticle is always correct. So you can hold the the correct amount of holdover and holdoff and not have to worry if the scope is on the right magnification. In your case where your not shooting past 300, it's not a big deal, sfp is good enough. But if your shooting further, using reticle to hold for wind, or making a correction for a follow up shot with the reticle then ffp is the way to go, imo.

 

[sp6x6]

Like Grey fox, I have several Leupold ,B&C,scopes,my son using them the most.But the mag ring had marks referred to as large delta and small delta, for reference,which was a triangle on mag ring.I went full FF 14 years ago, your hold same as your dial up if you want speed.

 

[waveslayer]

Only issue with a BDC reticle will be matching your rifle and ammo to what they are set at... so at any distance they aren't worth a darn. Better to dial, or train yourself to use a greatvreticle like Horus 59, Tremor 3 or 5, etc. I stopped using BDC's and trained myself to learn my DOPE. Then it doesn't matter what power my scope is, I just dial and blast away. Or you take the next step and you use a "Christmas Tree Reticle" which I prefer, and just use hold overs.

 

[M1A1ABRAMS]

This guy explains how your reticle works on a SFP.

 

[sjt18]

I read something a while back that made sense. FFP is useful if you are doing a lot of long range shooting or hunting. Otherwise you aren't likely getting something you'll use. Paying for magnification over 16 or at most 20 in a SFP scope probably doesn't make sense either.

So the recommendation for SFP scopes was to sight it in at maximum magnification. Sighting in at 200 yds might help depending again on how long you expect your shots to be.

The "logic" is that if you are zeroed at max magnification then that gives you your best result at long range. If you are shooting something where you don't use max magnification (like under 100 yds) then the error you introduce by lowering magnification isn't likely to make much difference on game.

In the end, it is a matter of how much you want to spend and what your priorities are. I have a Vortex FFP with a 50mm bell. I have a Sig with 44mm bell SFP. The latter to me has clearer, brighter image.

You also have to be careful. That Vortex is a well known and generally well reviewed scope. But the image quality suffers at maximum magnification and Vortex's reply was to use a lower setting. It is a lot less forgiving overall with eye relief and seems to be more impacted by mirage.

If you can put thousands into a scope then you can probably have it all. I have to deal with trade offs.

 

[1wildcatfan]

Been using S&B FFP since late 80s for hunting. Never had a problem. Played with a Leupold with the B&C reticle once, didn't care for it.