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goodgrouper
Well-Known Member
Re: Wilcat Bullets...Why haven\'t BC\'s been posted?
[ QUOTE ]
Now lets stop all the pot stirring and thats what I see here just like some of the coppermelt posts ( not all of them ) I have seen. When people believe in a product and have used it for themselves and find it to be a **** good one we tend to get a little frazzeled when someone calls BS about it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely! I have no problem with people that have come to a different conclusion than mine on their own merits, but people who put something down without any knowledge of the product really ought to be sentenced to a date with Lorena Bobitt! That mentallity really irks me and it is that mentality that will never further the progression of our sport. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
As far as Wildcat bullets go, I treat them like everyone else's bullets. I buy em and try em! Published bc's are never accurate enough for precision at long range anyway! You must configure your own bc by any method that suits YOU! Then and only then do you have PERTINENT INFORMATION! I have figured bc's with two chronos, and backdoored the ballistic programs and they both can work wonderfully. However, bullet bc's change from day to day, from minute to minute, and from box to box so it is ALWAYS impossible to give an exact reading for any group of bullets not shot at the same second! Published bc's are just guidelines and nothing more so lets not get bent out of shape over them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Hey Richard, got those 300 grain .338 matchers done yet?
[ QUOTE ]
Now lets stop all the pot stirring and thats what I see here just like some of the coppermelt posts ( not all of them ) I have seen. When people believe in a product and have used it for themselves and find it to be a **** good one we tend to get a little frazzeled when someone calls BS about it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely! I have no problem with people that have come to a different conclusion than mine on their own merits, but people who put something down without any knowledge of the product really ought to be sentenced to a date with Lorena Bobitt! That mentallity really irks me and it is that mentality that will never further the progression of our sport. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
As far as Wildcat bullets go, I treat them like everyone else's bullets. I buy em and try em! Published bc's are never accurate enough for precision at long range anyway! You must configure your own bc by any method that suits YOU! Then and only then do you have PERTINENT INFORMATION! I have figured bc's with two chronos, and backdoored the ballistic programs and they both can work wonderfully. However, bullet bc's change from day to day, from minute to minute, and from box to box so it is ALWAYS impossible to give an exact reading for any group of bullets not shot at the same second! Published bc's are just guidelines and nothing more so lets not get bent out of shape over them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Hey Richard, got those 300 grain .338 matchers done yet?
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Wilcat Bullets...Why haven\'t BC\'s been posted?
To All:
I never knocked Richard or his integrity or his ability to make bullets and his passion and desire to make the best bullets he can.
Kirby:
Again, you went off on a tangent about how these are the superman of bullets. And yes, you do make them out to be the best bullets in history. Look at your last post. Long Range, Short Range, Big Game, Small Game.
The BC's are so much higher than anything, and in so many different calibers. That is why they should be tested.
Is this so hard to grasp? EVERY BULLET!!! FROM 6MM TO 338 IS ALLEGED TO HAVE A BC SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER THAN ANY OTHER BULLLET!!!
Most of my complaint is directed at you. You spend more effort going off on that "We dont have to prove anything" attitude. Well, guess what, you do! Richard only makes and sells bullets, but you sell your rifles designed around them. You are the biggest promoter of these bullets. Stop turning this into a fight. It is a request for information. If you know so much about BC to make the claims you do (like your post on this thread with all your pictures) then back it up! You continue to spew as much retoric as you can to avoid finding actual BC's. Do you think that if BC's were tested and determined to be less than you predicted that you might lose some of your allen mag sales. By the same token, if they are that high wouldn't your rifle sales and wildcat bullets sales increase substantially?
Don't you agree that sales would go thru the roof if BC's were as high as claimed? Certainly you couldn't disagree. So what is stopping you?
Bill Bailey, at least twice in this thread you chose to make personal attacks. You are nothing but a piece of crap and a magot. I can't stand cowards like you who are so brave on the computer. I bet you wouldn't have the nerve to speak to me that way if you were standing in front of me. Would you?
To All:
I never knocked Richard or his integrity or his ability to make bullets and his passion and desire to make the best bullets he can.
Kirby:
Again, you went off on a tangent about how these are the superman of bullets. And yes, you do make them out to be the best bullets in history. Look at your last post. Long Range, Short Range, Big Game, Small Game.
The BC's are so much higher than anything, and in so many different calibers. That is why they should be tested.
Is this so hard to grasp? EVERY BULLET!!! FROM 6MM TO 338 IS ALLEGED TO HAVE A BC SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER THAN ANY OTHER BULLLET!!!
Most of my complaint is directed at you. You spend more effort going off on that "We dont have to prove anything" attitude. Well, guess what, you do! Richard only makes and sells bullets, but you sell your rifles designed around them. You are the biggest promoter of these bullets. Stop turning this into a fight. It is a request for information. If you know so much about BC to make the claims you do (like your post on this thread with all your pictures) then back it up! You continue to spew as much retoric as you can to avoid finding actual BC's. Do you think that if BC's were tested and determined to be less than you predicted that you might lose some of your allen mag sales. By the same token, if they are that high wouldn't your rifle sales and wildcat bullets sales increase substantially?
Don't you agree that sales would go thru the roof if BC's were as high as claimed? Certainly you couldn't disagree. So what is stopping you?
Bill Bailey, at least twice in this thread you chose to make personal attacks. You are nothing but a piece of crap and a magot. I can't stand cowards like you who are so brave on the computer. I bet you wouldn't have the nerve to speak to me that way if you were standing in front of me. Would you?
ricka0
Well-Known Member
Re: Wilcat Bullets...Why haven\'t BC\'s been posted?
I don't have a dog in this fight but as a logician I'll make a few comments.
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple"> Kirby:
Again, you went off on a tangent about how these are the superman of bullets. And yes, you do make them out to be the best bullets in history. Look at your last post. Long Range, Short Range, Big Game, Small Game.
</font>
[/ QUOTE ]
No useful info here, everyone knows Kirby likes these bullets. Making personal attacks adds nothing to answering your question (What is the true BC). They likely are the best bullets in history. Judging from the images I wouldn't be surprised.
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple"> The BC's are so much higher than anything, and in so many different calibers. That is why they should be tested.</font>
[/ QUOTE ]
This is your demand. I've already stated why Richard doesn't have time to do this. Kirby doesn't have time to do the tests you ask for. Neither is interested in what you are asking for, yet you keep repeating the same demands.
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple"> Most of my complaint is directed at you. You spend more effort going off on that "We <font color="red"> [sic] </font> dont have to prove anything" attitude. Well, guess what, you do! </font>
[/ QUOTE ]
Clearly a logical flaw. This is your demand. Why is Kirby required to satisfy your demands? I'd rather him spend more time on his uber mags. I'm not going to demand he finish his 7mm uber mag this week (or I'd have to demand Lilja hurry up too).
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple"> Richard only makes and sells bullets,</font>
[/ QUOTE ]
Incorrect. Richard is a very busy farmer. Farmers are also welders, mechanics, carpenters. Richard wears many hats and does what it takes to keep his farm going.
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple"> You are the biggest promoter of these bullets. Stop turning this into a fight. It is a request for information.</font>
[/ QUOTE ]
Again no new info. Kirby is one of Richards biggest fans. Your request has been turned down. Repeating your demands is just SPAMAGE.
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple">
If you know so much about BC to make the claims you do (like your post on this thread with all your pictures) then back it up! You continue to spew as much <font color="red"> [sic] retoric </font> as you can to avoid finding actual BC's.
</font>
[/ QUOTE ]
Logical fallacy of mind reading and motivation. You don't know what Kirby's schedule is. His motivation is moot to the BC question.
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple">
Do you think that if BC's were tested and determined to be less than you predicted that you might lose some of your allen mag sales<font color="red"> [sic]. </font> By the same token, if they are that high wouldn't your rifle sales and wildcat bullets sales increase substantially? </font>
[/ QUOTE ]
</font>
[/ QUOTE ]
Your personal attack is way of line for the forum. Your attack clearly shows you know very little about Kirby or Richard. They are both running over maximum production capacity now. Your conclusion is false.
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple"> Bill Bailey, at least twice in this thread you chose to make personal attacks. You are nothing but a piece of crap and a <font color="red"> [sic] magot </font> . I can't stand cowards like you who are so brave on the computer. I bet you wouldn't have the nerve to speak to me that way if you were standing in front of me. Would you? </font>
[/ QUOTE ]
I love the irony. Pointing out personal attacks only to make obscene personal attacks. A more mature, useful and logical approach would be to explain personal attacks add no useful information to answering your question. How is nerve, maggots related to the BC question?
Let me try to answer your question one more time. Kirby knows these bullets have higher BCs than other bullets (like SMK) because he's compared the drop of the bullets. Kirby has not rigorously quantified the BC and he has no interest in doing so. Demanding him to do these measurements is silly. I (and others) plan on doing these measurements and publishing the results – but I've got bigger fish to fry right now.
Kirby patiently answers questions that folks like me and others ask. He is an enormous contributor to this forum. Your noisy repeat demands are just a distraction. It's past time you give up this demand. You may have the right to keep and bare arms, but you have no right to the information you seek.
I don't have a dog in this fight but as a logician I'll make a few comments.
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple"> Kirby:
Again, you went off on a tangent about how these are the superman of bullets. And yes, you do make them out to be the best bullets in history. Look at your last post. Long Range, Short Range, Big Game, Small Game.
</font>
[/ QUOTE ]
No useful info here, everyone knows Kirby likes these bullets. Making personal attacks adds nothing to answering your question (What is the true BC). They likely are the best bullets in history. Judging from the images I wouldn't be surprised.
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple"> The BC's are so much higher than anything, and in so many different calibers. That is why they should be tested.</font>
[/ QUOTE ]
This is your demand. I've already stated why Richard doesn't have time to do this. Kirby doesn't have time to do the tests you ask for. Neither is interested in what you are asking for, yet you keep repeating the same demands.
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple"> Most of my complaint is directed at you. You spend more effort going off on that "We <font color="red"> [sic] </font> dont have to prove anything" attitude. Well, guess what, you do! </font>
[/ QUOTE ]
Clearly a logical flaw. This is your demand. Why is Kirby required to satisfy your demands? I'd rather him spend more time on his uber mags. I'm not going to demand he finish his 7mm uber mag this week (or I'd have to demand Lilja hurry up too).
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple"> Richard only makes and sells bullets,</font>
[/ QUOTE ]
Incorrect. Richard is a very busy farmer. Farmers are also welders, mechanics, carpenters. Richard wears many hats and does what it takes to keep his farm going.
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple"> You are the biggest promoter of these bullets. Stop turning this into a fight. It is a request for information.</font>
[/ QUOTE ]
Again no new info. Kirby is one of Richards biggest fans. Your request has been turned down. Repeating your demands is just SPAMAGE.
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple">
If you know so much about BC to make the claims you do (like your post on this thread with all your pictures) then back it up! You continue to spew as much <font color="red"> [sic] retoric </font> as you can to avoid finding actual BC's.
</font>
[/ QUOTE ]
Logical fallacy of mind reading and motivation. You don't know what Kirby's schedule is. His motivation is moot to the BC question.
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple">
Do you think that if BC's were tested and determined to be less than you predicted that you might lose some of your allen mag sales<font color="red"> [sic]. </font> By the same token, if they are that high wouldn't your rifle sales and wildcat bullets sales increase substantially? </font>
[/ QUOTE ]
</font>
[/ QUOTE ]
Your personal attack is way of line for the forum. Your attack clearly shows you know very little about Kirby or Richard. They are both running over maximum production capacity now. Your conclusion is false.
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple"> Bill Bailey, at least twice in this thread you chose to make personal attacks. You are nothing but a piece of crap and a <font color="red"> [sic] magot </font> . I can't stand cowards like you who are so brave on the computer. I bet you wouldn't have the nerve to speak to me that way if you were standing in front of me. Would you? </font>
[/ QUOTE ]
I love the irony. Pointing out personal attacks only to make obscene personal attacks. A more mature, useful and logical approach would be to explain personal attacks add no useful information to answering your question. How is nerve, maggots related to the BC question?
Let me try to answer your question one more time. Kirby knows these bullets have higher BCs than other bullets (like SMK) because he's compared the drop of the bullets. Kirby has not rigorously quantified the BC and he has no interest in doing so. Demanding him to do these measurements is silly. I (and others) plan on doing these measurements and publishing the results – but I've got bigger fish to fry right now.
Kirby patiently answers questions that folks like me and others ask. He is an enormous contributor to this forum. Your noisy repeat demands are just a distraction. It's past time you give up this demand. You may have the right to keep and bare arms, but you have no right to the information you seek.
D
daveosok
Guest
ATTN Kirby
Please do not leave the site. I have seen other folks who had loads of info leave because a few certain people some of whom may or may not be here now pestered the living hell out of them and they eventually left.
This isnt a reply to you bigbore just didnt want to start a new thread to say this to Kirby.
Kirby you have given a lot to this site and your informationand tests you perform are generally what we all want to see. When you say something is something I take your word for it, I havent tested them and you have shown no reason not to believe you.
For those of you who discount his bc's on the bullets and guns he uses get over it. Go buy some and do some testing for yourself. You will no doubt come up with different numbers unless you are using the exact same rifle and everything else. Like someone else said the acclaimed bc's is close enough to get you started to test for your on combination of powder and rifle and report back on what YOUR rifle produced for bc.
Give it a few more months or a years time and if you start to see these bullets winning match after match at 1000 yard comps then you'll know that they are worth their weight in gold. I suspect that this will happen within the next few years. Now if you keep ****in people (not meaning you bigbore) off and run these guys off we will have no where to go with them and must start form scratch to perform our own tests.
Kirby is willing to let us in on some of the load development and that is rare to find when you have a winning combination. Some guys at Williamsport keep secrets till their grave, someone who gives them up for the better of the whole lot of us is a true passioner of the sport.
Once again please do not let a few stubborn people chase you off this site.
Dave
Please do not leave the site. I have seen other folks who had loads of info leave because a few certain people some of whom may or may not be here now pestered the living hell out of them and they eventually left.
This isnt a reply to you bigbore just didnt want to start a new thread to say this to Kirby.
Kirby you have given a lot to this site and your informationand tests you perform are generally what we all want to see. When you say something is something I take your word for it, I havent tested them and you have shown no reason not to believe you.
For those of you who discount his bc's on the bullets and guns he uses get over it. Go buy some and do some testing for yourself. You will no doubt come up with different numbers unless you are using the exact same rifle and everything else. Like someone else said the acclaimed bc's is close enough to get you started to test for your on combination of powder and rifle and report back on what YOUR rifle produced for bc.
Give it a few more months or a years time and if you start to see these bullets winning match after match at 1000 yard comps then you'll know that they are worth their weight in gold. I suspect that this will happen within the next few years. Now if you keep ****in people (not meaning you bigbore) off and run these guys off we will have no where to go with them and must start form scratch to perform our own tests.
Kirby is willing to let us in on some of the load development and that is rare to find when you have a winning combination. Some guys at Williamsport keep secrets till their grave, someone who gives them up for the better of the whole lot of us is a true passioner of the sport.
Once again please do not let a few stubborn people chase you off this site.
Dave
Centre Punch
Well-Known Member
Re: Wilcat Bullets...Why haven\'t BC\'s been posted?
We in the UK are easy going, layed back, tolerent people and usually give people the benefit of the doubt but there times when claims must be backed by hard fact.
Whichever fort you come from you must,in the name of good debate respect each others opinions and views and not slag each other off.
I like data. i like quoting BCs when my buddies and i have a discussion but i have never quoted anything which does not have hard backed up fact. We have discussed Richards Bullets and he gets the benefit of the doubt, His claimed BCs are just that and are always discussed as just that.
We are not bothered if his BCs are overated, because if we could get his bullets over here we would test them against established bullets and draw our own conclusions.
The more i read this post i myself would like to see actual BCs published by Richard, if anything just to end this sometimes "heated" debate but i tell you this, if Richard did state actual BCs and my tests came no where near, then i would have something to complain about.
Ian.
"I mean't to shoot the pike but the duck got in the way"
We in the UK are easy going, layed back, tolerent people and usually give people the benefit of the doubt but there times when claims must be backed by hard fact.
Whichever fort you come from you must,in the name of good debate respect each others opinions and views and not slag each other off.
I like data. i like quoting BCs when my buddies and i have a discussion but i have never quoted anything which does not have hard backed up fact. We have discussed Richards Bullets and he gets the benefit of the doubt, His claimed BCs are just that and are always discussed as just that.
We are not bothered if his BCs are overated, because if we could get his bullets over here we would test them against established bullets and draw our own conclusions.
The more i read this post i myself would like to see actual BCs published by Richard, if anything just to end this sometimes "heated" debate but i tell you this, if Richard did state actual BCs and my tests came no where near, then i would have something to complain about.
Ian.
"I mean't to shoot the pike but the duck got in the way"
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Wilcat Bullets...Why haven\'t BC\'s been posted?
OK ... precursor to my post...I like Kirby and His contributions to this board, he probobly makes very nice rifles. More power to him... I really don't have any beef with anyone here... this is just an <font color="red"> observation </font> from reading more than posting the past few months...
[ QUOTE ]
Kirby knows these bullets have higher BCs than other bullets (like SMK) because he's compared the drop of the bullets. Kirby has not rigorously quantified the BC and he has no interest in doing so.
[/ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple">I believe that he does have an interest in doing so...maybe it is just me but if he so freely boasts about them I feel he would have some commitment to producing data on them? NO, am I wrong in this statement.. If I am tell me I'll admit it. </font>
[ QUOTE ]
Demanding him to do these measurements is silly. I (and others) plan on doing these measurements and publishing the results
[/ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple"> FOr the record , thats all I was after was some real world B.C.'s I figured as much talking as I was seeing about these awesome bullets someone would/should have data on them...</font>
[ QUOTE ]
Kirby patiently answers questions that folks like me and others ask. He is an enormous contributor to this forum. Your noisy repeat demands are just a distraction. It's past time you give up this demand. You may have the right to keep and bare arms, but you have no right to the information you seek.
[/ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple"> You are right he contributes a ton of information which I respect and have interest in. It is however, economically motivated which I feel is perfectly fine. I also feel we do have some claim on the information he clearly advertises. He and others have continued to say how wonderfully high the B.C's of these bullets are and freely post on this site... we all understand this site is to post, discuss and share information. Given that, what motivation would someone have to accentuate and revel in the performance of these fine bullets and not want to share the information?</font>
This post as other have in the past took on a life of its own. I feel the initial question was fair and valid given the history of past posts concerning these bullets. Some took a defensive attitude and other got offened. Necessary? No! but it is very hard to feel or hear inflections and emotions when someone types. I feel that may have cause some miscomunication between several here who are bickering.
If there was a wonderful new pill out there that cured the common cold and had really great side effects and everyone was saying how good they felt taking it.. wouldn't you want to know what the side effects were and just how it made you feel good?
OK ... precursor to my post...I like Kirby and His contributions to this board, he probobly makes very nice rifles. More power to him... I really don't have any beef with anyone here... this is just an <font color="red"> observation </font> from reading more than posting the past few months...
[ QUOTE ]
Kirby knows these bullets have higher BCs than other bullets (like SMK) because he's compared the drop of the bullets. Kirby has not rigorously quantified the BC and he has no interest in doing so.
[/ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple">I believe that he does have an interest in doing so...maybe it is just me but if he so freely boasts about them I feel he would have some commitment to producing data on them? NO, am I wrong in this statement.. If I am tell me I'll admit it. </font>
[ QUOTE ]
Demanding him to do these measurements is silly. I (and others) plan on doing these measurements and publishing the results
[/ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple"> FOr the record , thats all I was after was some real world B.C.'s I figured as much talking as I was seeing about these awesome bullets someone would/should have data on them...</font>
[ QUOTE ]
Kirby patiently answers questions that folks like me and others ask. He is an enormous contributor to this forum. Your noisy repeat demands are just a distraction. It's past time you give up this demand. You may have the right to keep and bare arms, but you have no right to the information you seek.
[/ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple"> You are right he contributes a ton of information which I respect and have interest in. It is however, economically motivated which I feel is perfectly fine. I also feel we do have some claim on the information he clearly advertises. He and others have continued to say how wonderfully high the B.C's of these bullets are and freely post on this site... we all understand this site is to post, discuss and share information. Given that, what motivation would someone have to accentuate and revel in the performance of these fine bullets and not want to share the information?</font>
This post as other have in the past took on a life of its own. I feel the initial question was fair and valid given the history of past posts concerning these bullets. Some took a defensive attitude and other got offened. Necessary? No! but it is very hard to feel or hear inflections and emotions when someone types. I feel that may have cause some miscomunication between several here who are bickering.
If there was a wonderful new pill out there that cured the common cold and had really great side effects and everyone was saying how good they felt taking it.. wouldn't you want to know what the side effects were and just how it made you feel good?
royinidaho
Well-Known Member
Re: ATTN Kirby
I'm really ticked! at a local 'smith' I hope that's what he really is. Has had my 338 winny for over 3 weeks just to install a Holland brake and I have a box of 100 252gr RBBT Wildcats on the shelf.
Soon as I get it back I'm gonna site'er in Zero @ 200 yds and shot at 200, 300, 400, 500 meters and clear out to the lava rock ridge (I'll use the LRF 1200) to range the target (if it'll) range that far /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
Then I'm gonna ask ya'll to step me through how you'd come up with a drop chart. (I seem to have problems in the line of site/line of bore difference i.e., difference between scope center line and bore). I painfully worked it out, kinda, on the ol' 270 but after all that work, my first shot @ 650 yds was on the money.
Then Kirby's gonna make me a 338 that'l reach out and touch somthin' aren't cha, huh, aren't cha???
Here's the deal: You can't tell how you're doin' by looking at whatcha you're doin', ya gotta look at the results!
The proof's in the puddin' as they used to say!
Ya'll have a good day, I'm gonna /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I'm really ticked! at a local 'smith' I hope that's what he really is. Has had my 338 winny for over 3 weeks just to install a Holland brake and I have a box of 100 252gr RBBT Wildcats on the shelf.
Soon as I get it back I'm gonna site'er in Zero @ 200 yds and shot at 200, 300, 400, 500 meters and clear out to the lava rock ridge (I'll use the LRF 1200) to range the target (if it'll) range that far /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
Then I'm gonna ask ya'll to step me through how you'd come up with a drop chart. (I seem to have problems in the line of site/line of bore difference i.e., difference between scope center line and bore). I painfully worked it out, kinda, on the ol' 270 but after all that work, my first shot @ 650 yds was on the money.
Then Kirby's gonna make me a 338 that'l reach out and touch somthin' aren't cha, huh, aren't cha???
Here's the deal: You can't tell how you're doin' by looking at whatcha you're doin', ya gotta look at the results!
The proof's in the puddin' as they used to say!
Ya'll have a good day, I'm gonna /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Re: Wilcat Bullets...Why haven\'t BC\'s been posted?
Ric,
If I had a rifle shooting 1/4 moa consistantly with any bullet I would not look around for greener grass either, I know for a fact Richard would tell you the same thing and agree with you as do I.
Point taken, sorry for the hot reply from me.
Kirby Allen(50)
Ric,
If I had a rifle shooting 1/4 moa consistantly with any bullet I would not look around for greener grass either, I know for a fact Richard would tell you the same thing and agree with you as do I.
Point taken, sorry for the hot reply from me.
Kirby Allen(50)
bailey1474
<strong>SPONSOR</strong>
Re: Wilcat Bullets...Why haven\'t BC\'s been posted?
[ QUOTE ]
Bill Bailey, at least twice in this thread you chose to make personal attacks. You are nothing but a piece of crap and a magot. I can't stand cowards like you who are so brave on the computer. I bet you wouldn't have the nerve to speak to me that way if you were standing in front of me. Would you?
[/ QUOTE ]
So much for making peace /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif!!! If you'll look about two posts up from your's, I apologized!!!
BTW, if your ever out here in the sticks of OK, you can reach me on my cell phone 405-880-7269. I'd welcome a face to face meating w/you /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif!!!
****, I hope no one ****ed in your Wheaties again this morning!!!
Let this thing die so we can discuss something that will do somebody some good.
[ QUOTE ]
Bill Bailey, at least twice in this thread you chose to make personal attacks. You are nothing but a piece of crap and a magot. I can't stand cowards like you who are so brave on the computer. I bet you wouldn't have the nerve to speak to me that way if you were standing in front of me. Would you?
[/ QUOTE ]
So much for making peace /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif!!! If you'll look about two posts up from your's, I apologized!!!
BTW, if your ever out here in the sticks of OK, you can reach me on my cell phone 405-880-7269. I'd welcome a face to face meating w/you /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif!!!
****, I hope no one ****ed in your Wheaties again this morning!!!
Let this thing die so we can discuss something that will do somebody some good.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Wilcat Bullets...Why haven\'t BC\'s been posted?
Kirby,
No problem... funny thing about this internet stuff.. sometimes it is hard to get a read on how what is being said..is actual being said... ;-) Unless you know the person...
Kirby,
No problem... funny thing about this internet stuff.. sometimes it is hard to get a read on how what is being said..is actual being said... ;-) Unless you know the person...
Buffalobob
Well-Known Member
Re: Wilcat Bullets...Why haven\'t BC\'s been posted?
John M
Judging someone else's personal courage is an extremely difficult thing, even in combat. I have seen kids fight bravely day after day and suddenly in a peculiar circumstance be unable to fight, but a few days later be good to go again, except for being embarrassed by the incident. You have no knowledge of whether BJ is or is not courageous nor under what circumstance. This is really unwarranted.
Calling people out into the street over bullet BC, when the cost of a box of bullets is less than a tank of gas, does not seem to be extremely rational to me.
And as far as Kirby goes, he openly discusses his successes and his errors just like most of the rest of us. And like Richard he provides a product that you can't get anywhere else ( Bruce Baer does some really good work in the larger calibers). If you don't like the product then you don't have to buy it. When I was in jump school at Ft Benning I went across the river to Pheonix City and bought a 7mm Wby Mark V as the ultimate 7mm. Since that day in 1969, we have seen the 7mm STW come along and then the 7RUM ( Dakota and Lazzeroni). The progression of case capacity and bullet weight is relatively obvious from my perspective. Kirby is moving at the front of this decades long trend and using Wildcat bullets. Will the 7mm AM push further than we have the correct powder and metallurgy to go? I do not know, but we will see what we will see. I have waited patiently and will continue to wait as he tests the prototype. In the end it is my money and I will do as I please and none of your "demands" will cause me to move left nor right.
The price of 93/94 octane is $2.75 and my mustang gets 12 mpg. Next week I will spend about $100 on gas to drive to Mifflin Pa. to test $10 worth of bullets at 1000yds. The only thing cheaper than bullets is primers. It is unbeleivable that any body who particiaptes in longrange hunting would grumble over the cost of a box of bullets.
John M
Judging someone else's personal courage is an extremely difficult thing, even in combat. I have seen kids fight bravely day after day and suddenly in a peculiar circumstance be unable to fight, but a few days later be good to go again, except for being embarrassed by the incident. You have no knowledge of whether BJ is or is not courageous nor under what circumstance. This is really unwarranted.
Calling people out into the street over bullet BC, when the cost of a box of bullets is less than a tank of gas, does not seem to be extremely rational to me.
And as far as Kirby goes, he openly discusses his successes and his errors just like most of the rest of us. And like Richard he provides a product that you can't get anywhere else ( Bruce Baer does some really good work in the larger calibers). If you don't like the product then you don't have to buy it. When I was in jump school at Ft Benning I went across the river to Pheonix City and bought a 7mm Wby Mark V as the ultimate 7mm. Since that day in 1969, we have seen the 7mm STW come along and then the 7RUM ( Dakota and Lazzeroni). The progression of case capacity and bullet weight is relatively obvious from my perspective. Kirby is moving at the front of this decades long trend and using Wildcat bullets. Will the 7mm AM push further than we have the correct powder and metallurgy to go? I do not know, but we will see what we will see. I have waited patiently and will continue to wait as he tests the prototype. In the end it is my money and I will do as I please and none of your "demands" will cause me to move left nor right.
The price of 93/94 octane is $2.75 and my mustang gets 12 mpg. Next week I will spend about $100 on gas to drive to Mifflin Pa. to test $10 worth of bullets at 1000yds. The only thing cheaper than bullets is primers. It is unbeleivable that any body who particiaptes in longrange hunting would grumble over the cost of a box of bullets.
