Why no love for the 40S&W?

[jpd676]

That would be due to the call I responded to a little while back and the ensuing autopsy. 4 hits from a 9mm where classified at fatal by the TBI. Yet said drug dealing meth head kept fighting for more than 5 minutes after the first shot. Moral of the story is hand guns suck and always call for backup. 9mms suck. 40s suck less. 10mms suck less than 40s. However, 6 units on the scene in less than 5 mins does not suck.



I don't subscribe to the 9mm magic ********. I've been on admi leave for being forced to Participate in the application of lethal force more times than I'd like to admit. The technology everyone boasts about does not only apply to 9mm. The advancement was across the board. If anything the new tech favors larger bullet diameter coupled with adequate velocity. I've been on the legally correct end of several of these unfortunate situations. And both the ones where 45s and 40s where chunked instead of 9s ended sooner with less hits to stop the target. Yes drugs where involved in all cases. No people don't react the same. But 1 well placed 40 beats one well placed 9. There is no denying that. Only keyboard warrior nonsense.

I appreciate your service, libtardmcsocialist.

My department is going to switch to 9mm, against my advice. The military adopted it for smaller framed shooters but an AR is their primary weapon. Law enforcement and then the public tend to follow. Bullets have gotten better in all caliber/cartridges. 9mm has historically not put people down quickly. The .40 had done a good job in law enforcement but all pistols lack power to stop a threat reliably. There are many officer involved shootings with 9mm's now that aren't stopping suspects very quickly. I'm a .40 guy all the way.

 

[Deleted member 107796]

Any current trend, is just that.
.40sw is just fine as is a 380 or other. IMO, how smooth the gun is, is more of a factor, particularly if you want to extent your range beyond close range. My Beretta PX4 Storm in 45acp, with it's rotating barrel, is the most accurate pistol I own.

 

[Mustang72]

I still like my 40,simply for how easy it is to carry and still be effective and concealable. I greatly prefer carrying my 44 mag or my 45acp. Looking for a lighter weight 45-again. Next purchase might even be a 357 sig. Now there is an underated round that never had caught on! I have very little use for a 9mm!-but they are ok to practice with since ammo is so cheap!

 

[UplandFreak]

BTW - the 40 has more energy than the 45. Also has more recoil. 45 doesnt recoil much more than a 9mm imo.

 

[Mustang72]

Many factors affect recoil and terminal performance in handguns,just like rifles. My 629 mountain gun is is more comfortable to shoot than many 9s--with the right load. Put in a hot 300 grain load and it's not for the recoil sensitive! The 40 May show more energy on paper,but wider frontal areas transfer more energy faster. Lots of factors come into play. Unless things have changed the 357 mag is king of one shot stops.

 

[WyoHunter1]

I assume you mean one shot stops on people. It wouldn't be one of my first

Many factors affect recoil and terminal performance in handguns,just like rifles. My 629 mountain gun is is more comfortable to shoot than many 9s--with the right load. Put in a hot 300 grain load and it's not for the recoil sensitive! The 40 May show more energy on paper,but wider frontal areas transfer more energy faster. Lots of factors come into play. Unless things have changed the 357 mag is king of one shot stops.

I assume you mean one shot stops on people.
Where I hunt it would not be one of my first 5 or 10 choices when it come to big animals. I see where you mentioned that you have a 629. GREAT PISTOL. That is why when you mention the 357 I assumed you meant for drug infested or just your general 2 legged vermin?

 

[ndking1126]

The office I work for isn't. Kentucky State Police did, however, citing that premium 9mm LE ammo was cheaper than premium .40 S&W ammo.

That was exactly my guess.. ammo is cheaper.

 

[Nuclear Worker]

I assume you mean one shot stops on people. It wouldn't be one of my first

I assume you mean one shot stops on people.
Where I hunt it would not be one of my first 5 or 10 choices when it come to big animals. I see where you mentioned that you have a 629. GREAT PISTOL. That is why when you mention the 357 I assumed you meant for drug infested or just your general 2 legged vermin?

I run a tactical shooting range in Wisconsin. Me and my wife both shoot 40 caliber. She is not a large woman5'6"" 125 pds. She can shoot her m&p faster and put more rounds on target than 90% percent of the people who train by us. It is called practice!! Also we have 17 steel human knockdown targets and many times people with the 9mm can't knock them over. Is it snappy yes. Do you feel your gun go off when hunting compared to off the bench? Same thing with the pistol when I put people in different scenarios they don't feel the recoil either. People feel the recoil when shooting at hanging pieces of paper. That is NOT training!! That is target practice!! We have 17 steel human knockdown, cabin for home invasion, car for car jacking, 4 running targets.

 

[CVCOBRA1]

I grew up shooting revolvers. After shooting thousands of 357 and 44 mags, with many more thousands of 38 and 44 sps thrown in there, the semi autos seemed bland when I finally moved on to them. Have many 9's, 40's and 45's now and they are still tame compared to a 4" fully loaded 44 mag.

 

[Pinoniper]

99% of us will never even have to draw their weapon in a hostile situation. The 9mm is lighter and easier to carry. Spare mags with the same round count are also lighter and smaller compared to the 40. Them's the facts.

Couple that with less recoil, cheaper for Joe Sixpack (that would be me) to shoot, and easier, faster, follow-up shots, and its no contest as to why the 9 is more popular.

It might be different if the 9 were an ineffective round, but that's simply not the case. I can respect the anecdote of a meth-head who took four 9mm slugs and kept coming, but he might have done the same with four 40SW slugs. Alas, we'll never know.

 

[WyoHunter1]

I grew up shooting revolvers. After shooting thousands of 357 and 44 mags, with many more thousands of 38 and 44 sps thrown in there, the semi autos seemed bland when I finally moved on to them. Have many 9's, 40's and 45's now and they are still tame compared to a 4" fully loaded 44 mag.

I agree- If recoil is an issue, shoot what you are comfortable with. But if you are comfortable with and accurate with a larger caliber, you wont be sorry for having the extra power.

 

[dfanonymous]

Easy is what it takes for most people. Most guys/gals work 40, 50, 60 hours a week. Kids got hockey and baseball. Have to find time to get strings on the dekes and shoot geese and chase a couple roosters. Local deer hunting and then a trip for speed goats or elk or whatever you could draw a tag for this year. It all takes time and it all takes money. I would bet a good percentage of guys on here had government funded training earlier in life, but the ammo and range time often come in 2nd or 15th place for alotta folks. The 9 is just "easier".

I think nothing worth it in life is easy. Yes, I was a dod/gov trained/ current gov/ personnel. To that end, I know what it takes, not from the training but from real world experience in respect to operations globally.

If you are going to the range to shoot, which most enthusiast on here are going to do anyways, wouldn't it make sense to at least try to do it right?
9mm, 40, 45...it shouldn't matter. Drive it correct. A box of 50 can go a long way w/ quality repetition.
Dry fire from working on the draw at home. Trigger displine at home. Speed reload, admin reloads (tactical) all from home=free. Multiple target engagement; look, see, pivot....at home, free. High ready, low ready + w/ dry fire. Free.

The information is out there. Will you be an expert on force on force? No. As you said, that either requires money w/training or people to try to kill you on the reg. Can a person build up the basics, maintain those skills and build slowly from there from carefully vetted information and train on the range when they go? Yes. Etc

If we are all just BSing on the subject, thats my long time opinion on training. If the number is
99% chance of never going to use a gun for defense, and is the justification for not training, then why even carry it? You have the same likelihood of getting hit by lighting or winning the powerball.

 

[Zman99]

The reason why police departments are switching to the 9mm is very simple. It's cheaper. With the new technology the 9mm now meets the standards for duty carry. That definitely does not mean it beat out the .40 or is the best it is just the cheapest option that meets the standard. Used to be issued a .40 now issued a 9mm. Don't have a problem with it. They both have proven effective but it all comes down to cost. As said above pistols suck. If you have the option use a rifle every time.

 

[Nuclear Worker]

I think nothing worth it in life is easy. Yes, I was a dod/gov trained/ current gov/ personnel. To that end, I know what it takes, not from the training but from real world experience in respect to operations globally.

If you are going to the range to shoot, which most enthusiast on here are going to do anyways, wouldn't it make sense to at least try to do it right?
9mm, 40, 45...it shouldn't matter. Drive it correct. A box of 50 can go a long way w/ quality repetition.
Dry fire from working on the draw at home. Trigger displine at home. Speed reload, admin reloads (tactical) all from home=free. Multiple target engagement; look, see, pivot....at home, free. High ready, low ready + w/ dry fire. Free.

The information is out there. Will you be an expert on force on force? No. As you said, that either requires money w/training or people to try to kill you on the reg. Can a person build up the basics, maintain those skills and build slowly from there from carefully vetted information and train on the range when they go? Yes. Etc

If we are all just BSing on the subject, thats my long time opinion on training. If the number is
99% chance of never going to use a gun for defense, and is the justification for not training, then why even carry it? You have the same likelihood of getting hit by lighting or winning the powerball.

I agree 99% of winning a gun fight is not getting in one. Situational awareness is number one. Me and my wife both do 6 draws and 6 mag changes every morning when we put our weapons on. When People come to train by us they all want to shoot at 20+ yards like the movies. Can it happen there sure, but much greater chance at 5 feet. We do dry fire all the time and we own our own range. Most people that come by us to get there concealed carry license never come back to continue training. Most of them shoot the 9 because they say it is cheaper but they still don't train and definitely don't ever shoot the new better defensive rounds that everyone claims are better because there to costly. There is a big difference in shooting cheap target ammunition and high powered defense rounds.