Thank you for posting this! I never knew anything of the sort existed.
I still stand by the tried and true methods but this has my attention.
Why Hammer Bullets Are Always Faster
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I still stand by the tried and true methods but this has my attention.
That's the beauty of Hammers, you get all of that plus the extra velocity at no extra cost
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RockyMtnMT
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I was just helping a customer figure out a load for a 257 Roberts this morning. I haven't shot one so I went to Hodgdon data to find a start load. Looking to shoot the 92g Hammer Hunter I went to the 90g load data. Hodgdon lists data for a 90g GMX and a 90g Sierra HPBT. Max listed load of blc2 for the GMX is 38g at 2916 fps and 45,500 cup. Max listed load for the 90g Sierra is 43.5g at 3231 fps and a pressure of 45,000 cup. This is interesting. There is a few conclusions that one could have looking at this data. Based on the statements in this thread you could say that Hodgdon must be lying in order to promote one bullet over the other at the potential risk to the end use. Or maybe the "Big boys" don't have actual pressure data to back up their data. Or you could conclude that material and form of the bullets result in diff velocity at different pressure because of the design.
I generally avoid using data for other copper bullets to determine a start load for Hammers. There is to much difference in engraving pressure. Using start loads for conventional lead core bullets are closer, so starting with those listed start loads will be nice and mild to work up from watching for all of the diff signs of pressure on your brass and feeling the rifle when ejecting a spent case as you work up. This will work well with all of the Hammer Bullets except the Absolute Hammers. The engraving pressure is too low to use published start loads for similar weight bullets. I will use the max listed load as a start for the Absolute Hammers and work up in the same manner. Trick here is to find a powder that will have enough load density to get to pressure before you run out of case space. This is why we tell loaders that they should be very experienced with reading pressure signs to load for the Absolute that does not line up well with conventional data.
On another note. I have been thinking about this thread the last few days. It got me to thinking. Maybe when we designed Hammer Bullets we didn't design a bullet that has lower engraving pressure that results in higher velocity potential than conventional bullets at equal pressure. I'm thinking maybe we accidently came up with a pressure masking technology that makes it so that hand loaders are not able to detect normal pressure signs. We have designed a bullet that keeps pressure from showing on the brass or the action of a rifle but has massive pressure in the barrel that can only be detected by the use of a pressure test barrel.
I generally avoid using data for other copper bullets to determine a start load for Hammers. There is to much difference in engraving pressure. Using start loads for conventional lead core bullets are closer, so starting with those listed start loads will be nice and mild to work up from watching for all of the diff signs of pressure on your brass and feeling the rifle when ejecting a spent case as you work up. This will work well with all of the Hammer Bullets except the Absolute Hammers. The engraving pressure is too low to use published start loads for similar weight bullets. I will use the max listed load as a start for the Absolute Hammers and work up in the same manner. Trick here is to find a powder that will have enough load density to get to pressure before you run out of case space. This is why we tell loaders that they should be very experienced with reading pressure signs to load for the Absolute that does not line up well with conventional data.
On another note. I have been thinking about this thread the last few days. It got me to thinking. Maybe when we designed Hammer Bullets we didn't design a bullet that has lower engraving pressure that results in higher velocity potential than conventional bullets at equal pressure. I'm thinking maybe we accidently came up with a pressure masking technology that makes it so that hand loaders are not able to detect normal pressure signs. We have designed a bullet that keeps pressure from showing on the brass or the action of a rifle but has massive pressure in the barrel that can only be detected by the use of a pressure test barrel.
choprzrul
Well-Known Member
....
On another note. I have been thinking about this thread the last few days. It got me to thinking. Maybe when we designed Hammer Bullets we didn't design a bullet that has lower engraving pressure that results in higher velocity potential than conventional bullets at equal pressure. I'm thinking maybe we accidently came up with a pressure masking technology that makes it so that hand loaders are not able to detect normal pressure signs. We have designed a bullet that keeps pressure from showing on the brass or the action of a rifle but has massive pressure in the barrel that can only be detected by the use of a pressure test barrel.
But....but...you need fancy testing equipment to make any kind of determination.....
.
The "MAGIC" bullet after all 
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Hand Skills
Well-Known Member
If your definition of magic is 'any sufficiently advanced technology...', then yes!
slikmrc
Well-Known Member
Using the hodgdon BLC2 data, GMX 38 grain @2916 and the sierra 40 grain @2864. Shouldn't the sierra be faster than the GMX according to the OP. Looks like 38 grains with the sierra be in the 2700 fps range or less
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
The Sierra is not a Hammer.
"Thors Hammer"
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No doubt it's been mentioned b4 but what would you list as the pressure indicators?
"This is why we tell loaders that they should be very experienced with reading pressure signs to load for the Absolute that does not line up well with conventional data."
"This is why we tell loaders that they should be very experienced with reading pressure signs to load for the Absolute that does not line up well with conventional data."
All I know is with the same powder measure and a comparative weight projectile, the Hammers are faster in every caliber I have shot so far, but that's only 3. I am not a gunsmith, the worlds greatest reloader, or the best shooter. But I do own a chronograph that has no idea if it's a mono or conventional bullet.
Will be working up some loads next week for my new 7.5 twist 220 Swift (poet and didn't know it), I have 2 weights in Hammers (they are expensive
) and 3 weights in conventional, if I don't forget(I am getting older) I will find this thread and let you know the outcome.
Will be working up some loads next week for my new 7.5 twist 220 Swift (poet and didn't know it), I have 2 weights in Hammers (they are expensive
) and 3 weights in conventional, if I don't forget(I am getting older) I will find this thread and let you know the outcome.
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
For me the two things I watch most closely would be how the bolt lift and extraction feel from mild to where pressure starts building and the case face with ejector marks. Primers are difficult to read. Some guns smash them flat regardless of the charge. Same with cratering. When getting to where we think we are pushing but maybe not sure we will decap and reprime to see if the primer pocket is remaining tight and if it will continue to stay tight for several shots. Some rifles will show an ejector mark no matter the charge. If this is the case then watch that ejector mark and when it starts to change from the mild charge then you know you are starting to stress the brass. All of the normal indicators together tell the story. This is why I like to start low and work up so that you can see and feel changes in the force to cycle the action and signs on the brass. We do use a chrono all the time. Velocity is most certainly an indicator of pressure, but not the only indicator. It is part of the total story gathered from all of the indicators. We have seen over pressure on everything but the vel. This is what I call false pressure. When we have hard bolt lift and punished brass with low vel. The 6.5 PRC is a great example of this. The cartridge does not like magnum primers. I think because the cartridge is very efficient the mag primer causes the ignition to happen too rapidly putting all the pressure in the chamber and not stretching it down the barrel. Changing from magnum primers to lr primers slows the ignition resulting in a smoother or slower burn spreading the pressure out and no longer punishing the brass. By switching to lr primers in the PRC we were able to see 4g more charge and 200 fps increase with the same indication of pressure. When we first started loading the PRC we thought Nosler was just way out of line on their velocity. We just couldn't come close to it. Most cartridges we only see about 30fps change with magnum to lr primers. So, when it comes to velocity if your other pressure indicators are high but not the vel there is probably something wrong with your recipe or maybe a barrel issue. If your pressure indicators are high as well as your vel, then you are certainly pushing. Like many of you it wasn't too long ago that I loaded without ever using a chrono. We did not have the capability. It is now very much a crutch for me. I can't imagine loading without it.
When loading an Absolute for the first time in a given cartridge I still use the chrono but have to rely more heavily on the other pressure indicators. The chrono now lets me see consistency of gain as the charge goes up and if we are seeing a jump in pressure with large increases in vel telling us so. Once a load is completed in a rifle with an Absolute then we can use that vel data to tell us in the next rifle when we are getting into the area of pressure. It now becomes more relevant in the total data indicating pressure.
I hope this makes sense.
