Why can't i reload exact cartridges?

[shawnb]

You guys are way more anal that i am haha. Part of my load development is testing for a wide oal "node". I find a spit where oal +-5 thou doesnt make a difference. In my current rifle i seat at 40thou jump and as the throat wears i didnt see any difference in accuracy/precision out to 1000+ yds by seating to 60thou jump.

 

[John Klingenberg]

As the Title suggests, I find it almost impossible to load cartridges that are all exact. I understand there are so many variables it is impossible, but something has been bothering me for years. Let me see if I can explain what I'm trying to say here, and it has to do with the measurement of a loaded round, namely, off the Ogive.

A few specifics, this caliber is 6,5 x 55 but applies to any. Bullet is 130gr the Nosler Accubond. My press is a Foerster Co-Ax, and the Die is RCBS Comp Micrometer Bullet Seater. I am using a Stoney Point Comparator (now Hornady LnL), with the 6.5 insert.

Here is what I'm looking for:

Many do measure exactly 2.530, however I always get a few off, mostly under, and I have learned when all adjustments are set, not to touch and play with adjustments, because that seems to make it worse. If one measures simply to the point of the bullet, you will have variances. But how can it vary measuring to the Ogive?

Ok, close enough, or is there some reason I just can't get 100% of my loads to measure exactly the same? I have not touched anything, how can the measurement possibly be different? This has had me stumped for years, as I have no logical explanation how the measurement can be different.

Check the rigidity of your press and where it bottoms out. I only mount my presses on plates of aluminum or steel after seeing the flex in a wood top bench. Your press arm/ram should also bottom out freely without touching any part of the bench. It's possible the bullets arent to exacting specs but I'd look more at your setup, technique, powder compression. Neck tension isnt the culprit unless you're compressing the load.

 

[DartonJager]

I apologize if this question is more of a distraction as I know it's not at all helpful to the discussion
But how does one know where to draw the line in spending money on often very costly highly specialized or custom made reloading equipment?
This is for me the MOST serious question I have not a readily available clearly defined answer for.
I struggle with this as I am now capable of producing reloads that out of my essentially 100% factory rifles that gives me consistent .7-.8" groups out to 400 yards. Keeping in mind I have optics that are for a hunting application and punching animals not paper
My reloading equipment consists of a pair of RCBS Rockchucker II presses my dies are Redding body only, Lee Collet, Lee dead length BSD, and Forster FL and BR BSD a Hornady hand primer
My brass is Hornady or Winchester. My chronograph is a Caldwell. I have tools to measure lengths of cases bullets and loaded ammo.
Now for my economic quandary
I simply can not justify let alone afford to buy all the reloading tools I MIGHT need to take my accuracy to beyond 400 yards
I'm trying to determine the ones I actually need who use will improve my ability to maximize my reloads consistency and the fore justify their considerable cost especially once you add up their combined cost. And then there is the cost of Norma brass which I know will undoubtedly help me achieve my accuracy goals and I will invest in some as my beloved dear departed father who I sorely miss was fond of saying you can't make a chicken sandwich out of chicken s!!t
But the question remains when reloading for factory rifles what equipment beyond the basic essentials is worth the investment and should be bought after one aquiers the essentials and which equipment do you buy incrementally as you reach a specific accuracy platto or discover a issue with your reloads you need to correct and how do you decide if the cost of the equipment us worth it based on the likely good of it it does fix you issue will it yield a measurable increase in accuracy?
For example in consistent neck tension or out if round case necks. How does one determine if your reloads are suffering from issues related to neck tension or out of round necks?
I have no tools presently to measure for either and there fore determine if either is having a negative impact on the consistency of my reloads and ultimately the accuracy of same. I know what tools to buy to measure and corrector this but how does one know if You need them to begin with?

As I said how does a mid level reloader like me decide what next tools to invest in if I don't actually know for certain what problem or problems with my reloads I have to over come in the first place?

In other words what data that I presently have accumulated from having fired my reloads do I use to base my next reloading equipment purchases on?

 

[DartonJager]

I think it runs into the point of diminishing returns. A well put together rifle will take care of everything.

True enough but depending on what you mean by a "well put together rifle" can likely be put of the financial reality for many hunters or shooters. I can afford and justify less $1k maybe a little more for a once in a life time rifle anything much above that approaches financial foolishness and forget rifles in the $2k-$3k price range. No doubt worth every penny. But most hunters and shooters my self among them simply don't have that many pennies laying about unused.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

True enough but depending on what you mean by a "well put together rifle" can likely be put of the financial reality for many hunters or shooters. I can afford and justify less $1k maybe a little more for a once in a life time rifle anything much above that approaches financial foolishness and forget rifles in the $2k-$3k price range. No doubt worth every penny. But most hunters and shooters my self among them simply don't have that many pennies laying about unused.

Get a Ruger American! They are STUPID accurate.

 

[DartonJager]

I think it runs into the point of diminishing returns. A well put together rifle will take care of everything.

True enough but what in your experience does as you say "a well put together rifle" cost?
I could be wrong but much of the reloading tools we buy are to in effect "tune" our reloads to sing in as near a perfect harmony with our rifles as can be done. And by tuning I hope I am accurate in meaning to correct for imperfections for lack of a better term in both our rifles and ammunition and the relationship between the two.
By a well put together rifle do you mean a semi or full on custom? Then one is faced with yet another financial dilemma for those of us with limited budgets in deciding what makes better financial sense spend the cost equaling that of 2-3 top tier factory rifles on a single semi or full custom that could instead be used to equip family members also wishing to hunt and need rifles to do so or compromise and hope to spend considerably less money reloading for a very well put together factory rifle like my Tikka T3's.
Again how does one know what's the better financial choice as much as I dearly wish I could say financial concerns aren't a deciding factor or to those who say if serious about achieving maximum accuracy one has to accept the cost as par for the course I unfortunately like most reloaded and shooters have to remain financially responsible in finding my hobbies even one I love as dearly as shooting

 

[DartonJager]

Get a Ruger American! They are STUPID accurate.

I'll give serious consideration to your suggestion since my beloved very affordable Tikka T3 light was discontinued and it's replacement the T3X is 50% more expensive and IMO no longer a killer bargain.
I own two older T3 Light rifles that the very first 3 shots at 100 yards with both using Federal blue box ammo formed a beautiful clover leaf. Bought one new and one used. New I paid W/FFL-XFR/S&H under $600 for a sst/syn. Now the T3X Light IMHO is still a great rifle but at only a average price and no longer the great bargain like their predecessors were

 

[NEMTHunter]

Get a Ruger American! They are STUPID accurate.

Hard to beat for the money for sure! My next "build" will be based off this action.

 

[Rich Coyle]

Is this a three lug action?

 

[forever25]

I have fought this problem my self, and to all that contributed, Thanks for a good discussion. It has cleared up a lot of things for me. I reload .338 lapua, .308, 7mm and have had the Original post issue for a long time. Now I now what to look for.

 

[Bigaldepr]

Your post inspired me to do it right. After trying other methods to measure the CBTO without repeatable results I purchased a LnL bullet comparator and gauge. Like I said in my earlier post there will always be some variability. I used three bullets in one case, rotating between the three with each measurement for the Partition and five measurements with one ABLR. Very happy with results and confident in the results. Note how close the ABLR and Partition measurements are, less than 4 thousandths, even though they have very different ogives.