Who says only bolt guns are accurate?

[Ward Thurman]

If what JE Custom says is true, then the simplest actions would be the single shot falling block designs like Ruger #1, Sharps or Winchester. However, nearly everyone in long range matches shoot a bolt gun. Why is that?
We have a factory, unmodified AR that has shot sub-MOA (.223) groups. Of course, my son was shooting (really good marksman) and conditions were right and hand loads. But the same gun in the same capable hands in the field during a blizzard, 150 yards on a whitetail buck ended in clear misses. That says that "paper accuracy" while very important, isn't everything.
In my pea-pickin' mind, long range competition shooting and hunting are two different things and while a guy may be able to consistently smack a target in a competition doesn't mean as much in the field. Just because you can hit a target at 1200 yards doesn't mean you should be taking 1200 yard shots at a game animal.

 

[David Lindler]

This group is from a DPMS G2 308. I have only made 2 changes from factory. The trigger and the buffer spring.
View attachment 144142
That's .75 moa seven shots.

I have a DPMS receiver and bolt group with a lil

This group is from a DPMS G2 308. I have only made 2 changes from factory. The trigger and the buffer spring.
View attachment 144142
That's .75 moa seven shots.

I have a DPMS 308 with lilja heavy weight 24" barrel and timmney single stage trigger. This is a 3 shot group at 100 yards. This with 150 grain FMJ and not even a "match" guailty bullet.

 

[JAYgs8163]

This is an $800 factory gun. I doudt you would get much better precision from an $800 factory bolt action rifle.

Maybe I'm wrong about that.

I have 2 factory Savage bolt guns. One in 308 and one in 6.5 CM and both will shoot bugholes with my hand loads. Both have the Savage accutrigger and accustocks. Both are light Palma type barrels. Basically their factory sniper rifle and both were had for under $600. Both shoot consistently under .40 MOA and if everything is perfect on range day they shoot .25 or better.

 

[Stephen Orleski]

They are not long range guns IOM.

I'm not following your line of reasoning, if the gun is shooting .75 moa at 100 yards, why would it change over 300, 400, 500, 1000 yards. Marines have to qualify at 500 yard targets with open sights. As long as the bullet stays supersonic it remains accurate. I just calculated that the Black Hills OTM 77g bullets with a 2750 MV, .372 BC will stay SS to 1200+ yards.

I have a 6.5 grendel AR with a 24 inch barrel that shoots 1/2 moa at 100.. I took a long range shooting course with it, and was able to hit multiple times a 10 inch plate at that distance.

 

[Randy Tidwell]

ARs can be very accurate for what they are. And it is related to what you consider accurate, we all have our standards.

I've had this discussion several times with guy that love their AR, you can't say they are accurate as a bolt action bolt gun.

1st, the day you can do this with any auto loader, I will bow down to you.


2nd, We have a local Silo match consisting of shooting steel targets of Rats, Crows, Chipmunks, Rabbits, and Prairie Dogs starting at 200 meters, ending at 600 yards.

There have been a few guys show up with ARs that are set up with fast twist barrels for long range. They do OK, but I have never seen them clean a bank of 10 targets. They are always finishing in the middle of the pack.



One of the biggest factors (IMHO) that prevents Auto Loaders (and Falling Block Actions should be included in this discussion) is Lock Time. The ARs have a very slow lock time.

So don't kid yourself, an AR platform rifle can be accurate to its ability, it won't run with a bolt gun.

JMHO

 

[bassassassin104]

I have loaded for 3 AR10's (308 win) and and numerous AR15's with good success. My factory Remington R25 will hold 3/4 MOA with hand loaded 165's & 168's out to 800 yards. Same exact loads in a GA Precision will shoot 1/2 MOA, but I've only shot it to 600 yards. Loaded some ammo for a friend's DPMS and he claims it shoots sub MOA, but he hasn't shot it past 300 yards. Bought a DPMS AR15 a few years back with an upgraded barrel and trigger that will put 68 grain Hornady hpbt's in a dime all day at 100 yards. I don't ever recall shooting it much farther than that. What we call "Accurate" is somewhat personal and we all have to make our own determination based upon our expectations, needs, and abilities.

 

[Pointman]

If I do my part, my S&W AR10, stock out of the box with decent glass will keep 5 under a quarter. Is it a long range weapon, don't know for really long range, I prefer my Ruger precission 6.5 CM or my Savage BA 110 338 LM. Thn Savage did require a Timney trigger, the Accu-trigger started having reset issues. I believe the AR platform as designed can have good accuracy depending on the shooter and the ammunition.

 

[jshepherd61]

Nice. Now shoot it at extended ranges and let us know what it does.

Aero Precision M5E1, Craddock Precision 6.5 Creedmoor barrel, Timney Calvin Elite trigger, Silent Capture buffer. The target pictures are at 300 yds. No wind.

 

[sea2summit]

ARs can be very accurate for what they are. And it is related to what you consider accurate, we all have our standards.

I've had this discussion several times with guy that love their AR, you can't say they are accurate as a bolt action bolt gun.

1st, the day you can do this with any auto loader, I will bow down to you.
View attachment 144288

2nd, We have a local Silo match consisting of shooting steel targets of Rats, Crows, Chipmunks, Rabbits, and Prairie Dogs starting at 200 meters, ending at 600 yards.

There have been a few guys show up with ARs that are set up with fast twist barrels for long range. They do OK, but I have never seen them clean a bank of 10 targets. They are always finishing in the middle of the pack.

View attachment 144289 View attachment 144290

One of the biggest factors (IMHO) that prevents Auto Loaders (and Falling Block Actions should be included in this discussion) is Lock Time. The ARs have a very slow lock time.

So don't kid yourself, an AR platform rifle can be accurate to its ability, it won't run with a bolt gun.

JMHO

So you will only respect a semi if it outshoots a rail gun? How about shoot a group out of a real rifle and post it up and we'll talk.

 

[cohunt]

When you true a magazine you adjust the opening in the feed lips to best position the cartridge. Also you take the/any sharp edges of so they feed smoother.

Tuning the mag helps it feed better, just like adjusting the gas block. There are so many more things that can effect the function of a Semi Auto Than with a bolt, hence the reason that a bolt gun is more consistent, and less affected.


All types of actions have there place.

J E CUSTOM

you can tweak the spring to help the follower feed more evenly and keep the cartridges from nosing down too-- lots of "tweaks" you can d to both magazines and rifles from the AR family---but then again, lots of tweaks you can do to factory bolt guns too

I like both but for different reasons--I have very accurate ar's but my bolt guns always beat them out for accuracy -- bolt guns need to start looking at "super lightweight" materials --I can easily make a 223 ar lighter than a 223 bolt gun-- when it comes to ar10 size, I can get them pretty close to the same weight

 

[huntintoo]

Like I said, IMtO. I am a hunter, not a target shooter. To me, with a couple of expensive exceptions, AR's are chambered for intermediate range cartridges. This doesn't even address the issues of feeding a precision cartridge in a semi auto. I did say they can ve very accurate. I have a custom .22 Nosler upper that is SCARY accurate with 68 gr Hornady's. This is even shot semi auto, and fed through the mag. It can be done. they are a blast to shoot. This will end up like the other thread about "Inherent Accuracy" Depends on what your definition of accurate is, and how far. The AR platform is the most consistently accurate semi auto design I am aware of.

I saw and add for a NEMO, "OMEN". .300WM caught my eye but I'd have to shoot it before spending that kind of cash.
https://nemoarms.com/rifles

 

[Ward Thurman]

This is an $800 factory gun. I doudt you would get much better precision from an $800 factory bolt action rifle.

Maybe I'm wrong about that.

We have a $400 unmodified bolt gun that shoots right at MOA. We also have a 1917 Enfield (30-06) that we paid $180 for that shoots barely over MOA. AR mentioned below we paid just over $500 for. Maybe we are just lucky.

 

[sea2summit]

View attachment 144300 View attachment 144301 View attachment 144302 View attachment 144303 View attachment 144304 View attachment 144305
Aero Precision M5E1, Craddock Precision 6.5 Creedmoor barrel, Timney Calvin Elite trigger, Silent Capture buffer. The target pictures are at 300 yds. No wind.

300? Very impressive.

 

[skipglo]

This group is from a DPMS G2 308. I have only made 2 changes from factory. The trigger and the buffer spring.
View attachment 144142
That's .75 moa seven shots.

That's great...for 25 YARDS! LOL. In the my younger years auto's were known not to be AS accurate as bolts....but then...cell phones and computers and CNC and and and didn't exist either....nice shooting