Who is annealing in sand?

[birdiemc]

This is how I'm set up. I couldn't tell you what mesh sand I have, I went to a house I'm building and snagged some from the pile the mason has out there. It is very fine, but far from flour consistency.
My temp brobe comes in tomorrow so I'll be able to get a temp reading and monitor, but so far just the way Watson described seems to be a winner, sure beats the heck out of a torch and a socket like I been doing

 

[Greasegun]

as stated, the the "annealing temp" heat will not travel to the case head once it is out of the heat source-- by the time the heat has migrated to the case head it will be low enough that it will not affect the heat treat/strength of the brass--remember that you need somewhere above 600 deg to start softening the brass--it may feel hot to the touch but it would never get that hot unless you left it in the heat source-

Good point. I agree. I wasnt aware the annealing threshold was that high.

 

[cohunt]

This is how I'm set up. I couldn't tell you what mesh sand I have, I went to a house I'm building and snagged some from the pile the mason has out there. It is very fine, but far from flour consistency.
My temp brobe comes in tomorrow so I'll be able to get a temp reading and monitor, but so far just the way Watson described seems to be a winner, sure beats the heck out of a torch and a socket like I been doing

thanks
Looks maybe somewhere around a 40 or 60 mesh, could be as fine as 100mesh but doesnt look quite that fine.
Masons usually use anywhere in the 16-60 mesh range for mixing mortar, a 100 mesh would be used for stiff like thinset or grout

 

[birdiemc]

I'd say not bad for a bucket full of trash brass, 4 different head stamps in there.
I'm not quite ready to run my good brass yet, but I have to say I think there is merit in this method.
While I definitely think Mikecr is correct when he said the thermal coupling between the sand and the brass isn't that great, it appears it might possibly be good enough to work. It's not going to uniformly heat the case perfectly as a liquid would, but all the guys using the torch and socket method for years seem to indicate perfection is not a necessity.
I guess the true test would be how well the cases hold up over time.

 

[Greasegun]

I'd say not bad for a bucket full of trash brass, 4 different head stamps in there.
I'm not quite ready to run my good brass yet, but I have to say I think there is merit in this method.
While I definitely think Mikecr is correct when he said the thermal coupling between the sand and the brass isn't that great, it appears it might possibly be good enough to work. It's not going to uniformly heat the case perfectly as a liquid would, but all the guys using the torch and socket method for years seem to indicate perfection is not a necessity.
I guess the true test would be how well the cases hold up over time.

The other true test would be a batch of brass that is untouched, a batch which is sand annealed, and a batch which is annealed in a flame or induction annealing machine. Take those, load them with the same load and fire them measuring for group size and velocity. Since neck tension would be affected here, there should be a measurable difference. The more consistent method should stand out as the best shooting.

 

[puttnpurr]

I read that too and I wondered if an old pot on the kitchen stove or camp stove would work? I might experiment with some garbage brass if I can find some time this spring...
Till now I've just been using a torch, bowl of water and holding the case head with my fingers.

Try putting a deep socket on a drill instead of burning your fingers

 

[birdiemc]

The other true test would be a batch of brass that is untouched, a batch which is sand annealed, and a batch which is annealed in a flame or induction annealing machine. Take those, load them with the same load and fire them measuring for group size and velocity. Since neck tension would be affected here, there should be a measurable difference. The more consistent method should stand out as the best shooting.

The problem with performing that test is finding somebody with the equipment to do it and the willingness as well.
I would be surprised if the induction annealer didnt finish first in that test. But if this way can produce positive results, I'll pass on the expense.

 

[Greasegun]

The problem with performing that test is finding somebody with the equipment to do it and the willingness as well.
I would be surprised if the induction annealer didnt finish first in that test. But if this way can produce positive results, I'll pass on the expense.

True, and I agree. I see no reason why this method shouldnt be effective, provided the brass is reaching proper temps.

At the least a test of annealed vs not annealed would be good. If the annealing is effective there should be positive results in your shooting. If the annealing process were too inconsistent (producing varying neck tension) then it should be measurable?

 

[dolomite_supafly]

I wonder if powdered metal would work better. I have a half pound of powdered copper, I might give it a try.

 

[cohunt]

I wonder if powdered metal would work better. I have a half pound of powdered copper, I might give it a try.

Copper should work, it melts at just below 2000 deg and it is a good conductor too. Stainless powder might work too, possibly iron powder I might do a little research before I tried it to make sure it wouldn't cause any issues with the dissimilar heated metals

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

I wonder if powdered metal would work better. I have a half pound of powdered copper, I might give it a try.

I think powdered copper would speed the heating and shorten the recovery time for reheating after each case.

 

[birdiemc]

I wonder if powdered metal would work better. I have a half pound of powdered copper, I might give it a try.

Now we're getting some r&d going....I've never purchased powdered metal, how does it compare to the salts you guys are using price wise? That's certainly one advantage to using sand.

 

[cohunt]

Now we're getting some r&d going....I've never purchased powdered metal, how does it compare to the salts you guys are using price wise? That's certainly one advantage to using sand.

$7/3.8oz on amazon for powdered copper -- not sure how much it would take to fill the melting pot though

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

$7/3.8oz on amazon for powdered copper -- not sure how much it would take to fill the melting pot though

I don't think you have to fill it. 3/4" will be more than enough for most necks. I was thinking of using a copper wire as a stand to push the cases down on to prevent tipping.