It may not affect the softening of the brass but could maybe a safety measure to prevent the heat from migrating too far up the case body and softening the area you dont want to soften. Just a thought.
Who is annealing in sand?
- Thread starter birdiemc
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cohunt
Well-Known Member
yikes!!! pure silica dioxide (silica sand) doesn't melt until 1710 degrees--way to hot for brass "annealing"
-- a water dip is not needed as soon as you pull the brass from the flame/heat source it will only cool, not continue to heat-- and no water does not harder brass like it does with steel so the water bath is just for ease of handling --it of course means you must dry the brass too which if why I dont cool in water, just air cool
bushmotornv
Well-Known Member
I think the main reason to dunk the case in water is to stop the heat traveling to the head of the case.
cohunt
Well-Known Member
as stated, the the "annealing temp" heat will not travel to the case head once it is out of the heat source-- by the time the heat has migrated to the case head it will be low enough that it will not affect the heat treat/strength of the brass--remember that you need somewhere above 600 deg to start softening the brass--it may feel hot to the touch but it would never get that hot unless you left it in the heat source--but water is not going to hurt the annealing process so cool it anyway you like that makes you feel good
human skin sustains 1st degree burns at 118, 2nd degree at 131, and destroyed at 162-- you would never be able to touch the brass head if it reached the annealing temps
as far as the sand goes-- what "mesh" sand are you guys using ? I'm assuming very fine like a 100-200 mesh? fine sands "flow" better-- even better would be high silica content sand as they are more round than some "angled" sand-- heck they even make superfine, ground sands (similar to and often called flour) that might be even better
is the sand sticking to the cases at all? any need to wash or clean after sand annealing?
Well I just gave it a try. I have the Ballistics Rec salt bath set up. I used it as is except I substituted the salt solution for fine sand used in sand blasting. Filled the pot up and shifted the case holder and probe till they sat proper in the sand. Turned on my Lee pot and it took appx 10-15 min to get to 510 C.. Probe seemed to work well. I used 15 7mm Wea mag cases and kept them in the sand for 8-9 sec. When done the necks certainly looked annelled but I have no scientific way of knowing if they are properly done. Had no trouble keeping the sand at 500-510C for the 15 cases but I feel if I would have a larger amount, say 50-100 then there would be a delay after a certain amount were done to get the temp up again. I wish I had a way of finding out the scientific results as I fine the sand method so much safer than using a liquid at 510C. At the very least it makes me feel safer. I tried squeezing the case necks slightly with pliars and all seemed to work. Just letting you guys know what I found.
cohunt
Well-Known Member
sounds good to me-- any water around that liquid salt just scares the snot out of me-- do you have any tempilac paint? I was wondering if the sand would rub it off or if it would stay on-- I put the paint on the inside of the necks for flame annealing, but wasn't sure if the sand that got inside the necks would remove the paint-- you wouldn't be able to see when the paint changed colors with it under the sand, but you could do a quick time vs change experiment to see if 7 seconds had changed the color vs 9 seconds
I'm in the clean-up process right now. What I noticed is the sand tends to stick a little to the case/probe holder. I will have to brush it off with a brass brush. I also noticed some sand sticking inside the case necks. I feel that tumbling the cases would be good so as to get rid of all the sand. Wouldn't want to end up getting some in the bore. What makes me question this method is @Mikecr feels this method won't work. This guy knows what he is talking about. He works in the stuff. The probe seems to work well and after 8-9 sec the case heads are no where near to hot. I started at 5 sec anneling and felt the color wasn't good enough. I got the proper color(as far as I can tell) at 8-9 secs.
Kmccord
Well-Known Member
I had read the same thing on time in the sand from the person who commented on his method in the original SBM annealing thread. So, cases are annealed, no flame or molten salt was used and the results are the same. Sounds like a good way to get started without spending a lot of money on machines and torches.
cohunt
Well-Known Member
what kind of pot? maybe i missed it
Kmccord
Well-Known Member
If he used the SBM equipment, then it should be the Lee Pot that you s the small version, but will let cape cove answer.
cohunt
Well-Known Member
birdiemc
Well-Known Member
I dont have my temp probe yet, but dug out some trash brass and got after it. As others are stating I have no scientific way to tell if it's working perfectly or not but the color seems good.
I set my Lee pot to 9 like Watson suggested, played around with various times and settled on 10 seconds.
First pic shows one anneal and the other not, second picture is the same 2 cases after doing the second one
I set my Lee pot to 9 like Watson suggested, played around with various times and settled on 10 seconds.
First pic shows one anneal and the other not, second picture is the same 2 cases after doing the second one
