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Where does .308 Winchester excel?
- Thread starter dmass
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TennJed
Well-Known Member
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- Nov 18, 2012
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Newer, faster, etc. is always enticing, but is it always necessary? Obviously shooting through the same hole at very long distance is a completely different use case than shooting/hunting at closer distances. Additionally the size of the animal also dictates an ethical caliber. While the brand new hot rod Dodge Charger I got for a rental car recently is way more high tech and exciting to drive than my 89 Ford Ranger, the Ranger suits my needs just fine, is cheaper (basically free) and will greatly reduce the probability of getting traffic tickets. Just because the .308/.30-06 are older cartridges doesn't make them obsolete. Look at the 30-30, no one would say it's a cutting edge high performance cartridge but many a deer has been taken with the old trusty lever gun. Again, it comes down to the use case. Keeping up with the latest new cartridge is a daunting task because almost everyday someone is coming out with a better newer cartridge. Knowing your use cases and limitations and using something "older" may suffice perfectly. I really don't think a blanket statement that the .308/.30-06 are useless is truly accurate. Just my thoughts.
They are as good as they always have been, and slightly better with newer bullets.
Cheap bull ammo, works fine in normal people hunting ranges. If you're actually hunting at long range I don't think it has a place, but if you're not I think we vastly overcomplicate everything sometimes
I wish I could buy norma match at 1$ a pop in some of my fancy cartridges I don't need at all.
Cheap bull ammo, works fine in normal people hunting ranges. If you're actually hunting at long range I don't think it has a place, but if you're not I think we vastly overcomplicate everything sometimes
I wish I could buy norma match at 1$ a pop in some of my fancy cartridges I don't need at all.
birddog 68
Well-Known Member
Who actually needs a reason to buy a certain rifle, caliber or shotgun?
Yes 308's are boring. They are also very accurate and versatile with all different weights of bullets and numerous powder's. I've been down the latest and greatest road and they just don't have the longevity.
If you are thinking of another 308 then is it possible that you miss your old boring 308?
Yes 308's are boring. They are also very accurate and versatile with all different weights of bullets and numerous powder's. I've been down the latest and greatest road and they just don't have the longevity.
If you are thinking of another 308 then is it possible that you miss your old boring 308?
Seems to me this thread, like all before it... is off topic.
The question was, Where does the 308win excel?
ex·cel
/ikˈsel/
verb
The question wasn't any of the following:
Is the 308win fun?
Is the 308win nostalgic?
Can the 308win kill anything at all?
Can 308win's hit targets ever?
Does the 308win have any place in the world?
Does anyone need to justify owning and using a 308win?
There is only one area where a 308win actually excels in todays world, and that is due to how bad it is at virtually everything else. The fact that it can produce enough recoil to properly proof a firing position, coupled with its inferior exterior ballistic performance and long barrel life, makes it a fantastic training round. However, most people will not purchase a dedicated rifle exclusively for rifle handling training.
There is no arguing the 308win's place in history. Just as there is no arguing its place in todays discipline. Outside of the specific training requirements laid out in the preceding paragraph, other more modern cartridges can do better at virtually every application.
Terminal performance, accuracy/precision, recoil, exterior ballistic performance, barrel life, etc. Other cartridges can best the 308win in virtually every category, individually and collectively, and be better at their respective jobs. There is only one configuration which can bring a 308win into the modern times... and it's Palma. Long barrels, (like 30-34") with 155gr slippery bullets. Modern components provides the ability for that combination to push velocities high enough with a bullet that has just enough BC to make things favorable.
About 7-8 years ago... a week didn't go by where I didn't talk to someone extremely disappointed in their 308 after trying to use it in a situation where a different cartridge would clearly outclass it. That call is very rare these days, thanks to people waking up to the facts of ballistic reality. Still though, every so often... the phone rings and I'm met with all manner of regret as someone is now $5,000-$6,000 deep in a custom 308... and almost no one in the world wants it. Certainly not the owner.
The bad advice of others, brings more people under my mentorship than any of my own efforts.
I still have a 308win, for nostalgia and training sake. When I have a guy show up for training with a .22-250 or .204 ruger, and I need them shooting something where they can actually see the fruits of their labor behind the rifle, it often comes out. That's what the 308win excels at in todays world... and it's almost the only thing. With my reputation riding on people being successful with what I recommend now, I could not, and would not EVER, in good conscience recommend a 308win for virtually anything other than the very specific aforementioned task of a dedicated training rifle.
Conversely, if you're sitting there just itching to get a 308win... why would you let anyone stop you? I look back on my time with the 308win fondly. No other cartridge taught me as many things. Granted it was long ago, but I worked out the bulk of my knowledge in this discipline on that cartridge over roughly a 5 year period.
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The question was, Where does the 308win excel?
ex·cel
/ikˈsel/
verb
- be exceptionally good at or proficient in an activity or subject.
The question wasn't any of the following:
Is the 308win fun?
Is the 308win nostalgic?
Can the 308win kill anything at all?
Can 308win's hit targets ever?
Does the 308win have any place in the world?
Does anyone need to justify owning and using a 308win?
There is only one area where a 308win actually excels in todays world, and that is due to how bad it is at virtually everything else. The fact that it can produce enough recoil to properly proof a firing position, coupled with its inferior exterior ballistic performance and long barrel life, makes it a fantastic training round. However, most people will not purchase a dedicated rifle exclusively for rifle handling training.
There is no arguing the 308win's place in history. Just as there is no arguing its place in todays discipline. Outside of the specific training requirements laid out in the preceding paragraph, other more modern cartridges can do better at virtually every application.
Terminal performance, accuracy/precision, recoil, exterior ballistic performance, barrel life, etc. Other cartridges can best the 308win in virtually every category, individually and collectively, and be better at their respective jobs. There is only one configuration which can bring a 308win into the modern times... and it's Palma. Long barrels, (like 30-34") with 155gr slippery bullets. Modern components provides the ability for that combination to push velocities high enough with a bullet that has just enough BC to make things favorable.
About 7-8 years ago... a week didn't go by where I didn't talk to someone extremely disappointed in their 308 after trying to use it in a situation where a different cartridge would clearly outclass it. That call is very rare these days, thanks to people waking up to the facts of ballistic reality. Still though, every so often... the phone rings and I'm met with all manner of regret as someone is now $5,000-$6,000 deep in a custom 308... and almost no one in the world wants it. Certainly not the owner.
The bad advice of others, brings more people under my mentorship than any of my own efforts.
I still have a 308win, for nostalgia and training sake. When I have a guy show up for training with a .22-250 or .204 ruger, and I need them shooting something where they can actually see the fruits of their labor behind the rifle, it often comes out. That's what the 308win excels at in todays world... and it's almost the only thing. With my reputation riding on people being successful with what I recommend now, I could not, and would not EVER, in good conscience recommend a 308win for virtually anything other than the very specific aforementioned task of a dedicated training rifle.
Conversely, if you're sitting there just itching to get a 308win... why would you let anyone stop you? I look back on my time with the 308win fondly. No other cartridge taught me as many things. Granted it was long ago, but I worked out the bulk of my knowledge in this discipline on that cartridge over roughly a 5 year period.
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question
Question
Implication that's a question
I understand your point but it's not fair to act like OP didn't broaden the question from the title
LRNut
Well-Known Member
I have two .308s. One is at my daughter's house in MN; I use it exclusively for my annual MN whitetail hunt. Rem 7, 20" Shaw barrel. Have killed a lot of deer as well as five black bears and four red stag (used it on one of my Scotland hunts). My other .308 is a Browning X Bolt; got it to test back when I wrote for shooting mags. Like my Savage Lapua (which I got to test) it was stunningly accurate so I bought it.
I use the Browning as my principal 500 yard gong rifle. Did bring it to Africa once as well. I will bring it to CO when I return next month - it is a great 500 yard rifle, but I have given up on it at ranges of 800 or farther.
I see a few posts (including the OP) state that a round that drifts more is great for practicing wind calls. I used to feel this way but no longer do - you need to practice in the wind with rifles that have nearly identical wind drift as the one you intend to hunt LR. When I practice beyond 700 yards, I use 300 RUMs, 28Ns, Lapuas, or a .338 Edge. They all have similar wind drifts. I rarely even enter the wind estimate in my RFs anymore; I know what the drift is based on my estimate of its speed.
I use the Browning as my principal 500 yard gong rifle. Did bring it to Africa once as well. I will bring it to CO when I return next month - it is a great 500 yard rifle, but I have given up on it at ranges of 800 or farther.
I see a few posts (including the OP) state that a round that drifts more is great for practicing wind calls. I used to feel this way but no longer do - you need to practice in the wind with rifles that have nearly identical wind drift as the one you intend to hunt LR. When I practice beyond 700 yards, I use 300 RUMs, 28Ns, Lapuas, or a .338 Edge. They all have similar wind drifts. I rarely even enter the wind estimate in my RFs anymore; I know what the drift is based on my estimate of its speed.
Everyone wants to compare the .308 to CM but with newer bullets, better powders the .308 is no slouch in comparison out to 5-600 yards hunting scenarios. In fact virtually no difference except .308 is shooting heavier bullets.
So looking at factory ammo Hornady 6.5CM 143 ELDX VS .308 178 ELDX and slight edge to .308 at 500 yards. The .308 has 1397ftlbs vs 1318 ftlbs for the CM. Pretty much still gets it done.
So looking at factory ammo Hornady 6.5CM 143 ELDX VS .308 178 ELDX and slight edge to .308 at 500 yards. The .308 has 1397ftlbs vs 1318 ftlbs for the CM. Pretty much still gets it done.
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
I built the .308 because I was tired of shooting out all of my hotrods. I wanted just one rifle that was tiringly reliable, simple to reload and that would last and last. My .308 has filled that bill better than any other rifle that I own.
I find it even more versatile now with the wide range of Hammer bullets that are available. Currently, I'm testing their 124H which would be more than enough for whitetails and I'll bring the rifle along as a back-up or loaner if some at the camp needs one.
I find it even more versatile now with the wide range of Hammer bullets that are available. Currently, I'm testing their 124H which would be more than enough for whitetails and I'll bring the rifle along as a back-up or loaner if some at the camp needs one.
In the right hands the 308 can do more than just kill deer,hogs and such.
Snipers have used the 308 as well for a reason.
The longest confirmed kill shot with a 7.62x51 round (which is an equivalent round in virtually all respects excepting chamber pressure, which is slightly lower), was made at a distance of 1250m (1367 yards), by Staff Sergeant Jim Gilliand, in September 2005, using an M-24 sniper rifle.
Not bad at all.
Snipers have used the 308 as well for a reason.
The longest confirmed kill shot with a 7.62x51 round (which is an equivalent round in virtually all respects excepting chamber pressure, which is slightly lower), was made at a distance of 1250m (1367 yards), by Staff Sergeant Jim Gilliand, in September 2005, using an M-24 sniper rifle.
Not bad at all.
The 308 Win is so bad that several cartridges were developed based on it's case.. (being sarcastic)
7mm-08, 260 Rem and 243 Win, all great cartridges. The 7mm-08 is provably the best of all 4, better ballistics and reaches further than the 308. Followed closely by the 260. The 08 beat is due to being able to use heavier bullets, they carry more energy. The 243 is great for deer, but has no chance on elk compared to the other 3.
Still the 308 does what these cartridges do and in some cases it does it better. And like @Muddyboots mentioned, it still beats the all wonderful T-Rex killer 6.5 CM.
This wave of newer cartridges with less recoil is just ridiculous. I get the purpose of long range shooting and I agree, you can spot your shots better, better barrel life in some, etc. But they are not ideal for hunting.
Anyways, enough rambling, it's still a great all around cartridge.
7mm-08, 260 Rem and 243 Win, all great cartridges. The 7mm-08 is provably the best of all 4, better ballistics and reaches further than the 308. Followed closely by the 260. The 08 beat is due to being able to use heavier bullets, they carry more energy. The 243 is great for deer, but has no chance on elk compared to the other 3.
Still the 308 does what these cartridges do and in some cases it does it better. And like @Muddyboots mentioned, it still beats the all wonderful T-Rex killer 6.5 CM.
This wave of newer cartridges with less recoil is just ridiculous. I get the purpose of long range shooting and I agree, you can spot your shots better, better barrel life in some, etc. But they are not ideal for hunting.
Anyways, enough rambling, it's still a great all around cartridge.
mcdil
Well-Known Member
Surprised at some of the negative responses in reference to the 308 Win. I don't think anyone has ever accused it of being a good long range option, so assessing it as such seems like a misapplication. Our bullets extend its range some if using mono-metal bullets, but really the value of the 308 Win is in environments where a 200 yard shot is rare and a 400 yard shot is like finding a hen's tooth. Yes, it can perform at ranges further than that, but I'd pick something else in those scenarios. When most shots are 50 - 150 yards, the 308 Win provides a 30 cal bullet at decently high impact velocities allowing very large animals to be dispatched efficiently with proper bullet construction and shot placement. All this from a fairly mild kicking, low muzzle flash, compact setup, with endlessly available components. That's a lot of bang for the buck, so to speak for that type of hunting, and there is a lot of terrain in the US where that is exactly the type of hunting that takes place. To me, that's the value of the 308 Win.
The 308 excelled last deer season coming out of my old Savage 99. Shot one shot, deer died one time. That excelled in my book.
