When do you know you’re gonna rebarrel?

[Inky Doc]

I am looking at getting a new gun, probably 6.5 CM, and it will be a production gun. I will swap out the tupperware stock for a laminate one and plan on glassing it with a $500-$1000 scope. I currently have no delusions about trying to stretch it to a 1000 yards, but ~500 on the range and maybe 300 on game. My question is when do you just assume the gun will require a rebarreling? Manufacturers clearly advertise their heavier contour barrel choices for precision/varminters/long range, but when does reality dictate that you must have an aftermarket barrel to hit a 500 MOA group? A couple years back I bought my daughter a 22-250 Ruger American with the stainless barrel and she shoots consistent 5 shot groups around .75-.90" at 100 yards with a Vortex Diamondback 4X12. Should I spend the extra bucks to get a heavier factory barrel or start planning on an aftermarket one from the get-go? I also know there are great shooting sporter contour barrels too. If I am going to be ****ed when I buy a varmint barrel factory gun, upgrade the stock and put some quality glass on the thing and it still shoots like crap, I would like to plan ahead and have something other than my gun to bash against a tree.

 

[Rich Coyle]

When I can't get the kind of groups I want. Of course that would include trying various components to see if it really is bad.

 

[FEENIX]

When I can't get the kind of groups I want. Of course that would include trying various components to see if it really is bad.

Ditto!

 

[Capt RB]

Factory rifles are a crap shoot in alot of cases. Certain ones though are available with the accuracy your looking for. Model 10 savages are blue printed actions and 0 head spaced on a sammi chamber. I shot quite a fe and the one I owned would shoot sub inch 300 yard groups when i could call the wind well. It shot sub 2" at 600 yds on several occasions.
The Remington 700P didn't go out unless it would shoot sub moa. Most will do much better than that. Tika has a sub moa or it doesn't leave the factory Weatherby vangard has the sub moa series also.
The first 2 are not pencil barrels and the others mentioned can be had in at least a #2 contour if you wish. That will not be good if you plan on shooting more than 3-5 every 45 minutes.
There are other factory rifles that shoot well Browning Bergera Mossberg Howa and a few others. If your thinking of a rebarrel you should look to Patriot arms for a barreled action. Then you get your laminate and be ahead of the game with a custom action barrel and stock right out of the gate.

 

[Inky Doc]

Feenix and Rich Coyle, I understand and agree with your answer but I was asking a different question. I'm looking for pre-emptive input, I would value your opinions greatly if you have time. Capt RB, I didn't know that about the Savage 10s and forgot about the Tikka guarantee. Also, two different Patriot Arms come up in search results... one in Texas and one in Florida, to which one were you referring? Thank all of you gentlemen for your replies.

 

[Capt RB]

https://patriotvalleyarms.com/actions/

 

[ShtrRdy]

If I bought a factory gun and just used it as is, I would first try to find a load it liked. Using a Sierra Match King bullet is a good first choice to try. These bullets tend to work well and are usually easy to develop a load for.

If I couldn't find a load that works, and I didn't mind the stock, I would bed the action and try load development again. I would also replace the trigger if I didn't like the original.

If that doesn't help I would replace the barrel.

As an example, I have a Tikka T3 Varmint model in 22-250. After load development that thing shoots 1/4 moa groups just the way it came. Many times I'll think about changing the stock but then I'll remind myself how well it shoots.

 

[WildRose]

I am looking at getting a new gun, probably 6.5 CM, and it will be a production gun. I will swap out the tupperware stock for a laminate one and plan on glassing it with a $500-$1000 scope. I currently have no delusions about trying to stretch it to a 1000 yards, but ~500 on the range and maybe 300 on game. My question is when do you just assume the gun will require a rebarreling? Manufacturers clearly advertise their heavier contour barrel choices for precision/varminters/long range, but when does reality dictate that you must have an aftermarket barrel to hit a 500 MOA group? A couple years back I bought my daughter a 22-250 Ruger American with the stainless barrel and she shoots consistent 5 shot groups around .75-.90" at 100 yards with a Vortex Diamondback 4X12. Should I spend the extra bucks to get a heavier factory barrel or start planning on an aftermarket one from the get-go? I also know there are great shooting sporter contour barrels too. If I am going to be ****ed when I buy a varmint barrel factory gun, upgrade the stock and put some quality glass on the thing and it still shoots like crap, I would like to plan ahead and have something other than my gun to bash against a tree.

There are good estimators for barrel life that'll give you a rough idea of when under normal conditions you should expect to start losing accuracy and need to rebarrel.

If you reload you can extend barrel life by "chasing the lands" i.e shooting heavier bullets and seating them longer until you max out your magazine size and bullet weight relative to barrel twist rate as you see accuracy begin to degrade.

With high velocity chamberings like the .22-250 you really need to clean them often or the carbon and copper build up can shorten your barrel life considerably.

Personally, I would spend money on a better scope clean the snot out of the barrel and have someone put a borescope to it to let you know what the barrel and throat look like before jumping to a new barrel.

 

[Greyfox]

In a factory rifle, I place high confidence in the Remington Milspec 700 barrel. I have owned four over the last ten years and know a few shooters that own them as well. All shoot sub.5MOA, and the bore scoped barrels look pretty good, both new and at 1500+ rounds. Barrel life varies based on usage, but for competition, I expect 2000-2500 rounds with the 308. My 6.5CM/47L/260R rifles run the same. I used the Milspecs to shoot factory class competition, and, have a 300WM for LRH. Not sure if they now offer it in the 6.5CM, but have seen them in 260 Remington.

 

[4xforfun]

When do I "rebarrel"? Well I don't actually "rebarrel" as all of my guns are switch barrel setups. So , when do I buy "another BBL"? Simple...when the rational side of my brain gets it's *** kicked by the "you can never have enough guns" side of my brain, which is closely associated with the "you don't need a reason to buy another gun" part of the brain!!

Tod

 

[Dosh]

There are good estimators for barrel life that'll give you a rough idea of when under normal conditions you should expect to start losing accuracy and need to rebarrel.

If you reload you can extend barrel life by "chasing the lands" i.e shooting heavier bullets and seating them longer until you max out your magazine size and bullet weight relative to barrel twist rate as you see accuracy begin to degrade.

With high velocity chamberings like the .22-250 you really need to clean them often or the carbon and copper build up can shorten your barrel life considerably.

Personally, I would spend money on a better scope clean the snot out of the barrel and have someone put a borescope to it to let you know what the barrel and throat look like before jumping to a new barrel.

Yup, as WildRose said, when the borescope shows the barrel is toast after cleaning the snot out of it. Otherwise you're just guessing.

 

[MudRunner2005]

In a factory rifle, I place high confidence in the Remington Milspec 700 barrel. I have owned four over the last ten years and know a few shooters that own them as well. All shoot sub.5MOA, and the bore scoped barrels look pretty good, both new and at 1500+ rounds. Barrel life varies based on usage, but for competition, I expect 2000-2500 rounds with the 308. My 6.5CM/47L/260R rifles run the same. I used the Milspecs to shoot factory class competition, and, have a 300WM for LRH. Not sure if they now offer it in the 6.5CM, but have seen them in 260 Remington.

You are correct, they do offer them in both .260 Rem and 6.5 Creedmoor. The .260 was such a big seller, and the 6.5CM is so popular, it should have been a no-brainer for Remington.

One very positive thing I've seen from the 6.5mm craze is that the .260 Remington has almost reached a popularity renaissance. I was very surprised to see Remington offer the 5R Milspec in .260 Rem. since Remington pretty much killed it off back in the early 2000's. Them chambering more rifles in .260 has been a huge boost in popularity for it. I hope the popularity continues for the .260 Rem. It's always been one of my favorites. I would love to see the .260 AI 40º become SAAMI standardized, Remington chambering rifles in it, and Lapua making brass for it.

 

[WildRose]

In a factory rifle, I place high confidence in the Remington Milspec 700 barrel. I have owned four over the last ten years and know a few shooters that own them as well. All shoot sub.5MOA, and the bore scoped barrels look pretty good, both new and at 1500+ rounds. Barrel life varies based on usage, but for competition, I expect 2000-2500 rounds with the 308. My 6.5CM/47L/260R rifles run the same. I used the Milspecs to shoot factory class competition, and, have a 300WM for LRH. Not sure if they now offer it in the 6.5CM, but have seen them in 260 Remington.

Last I checked they do in the Gen 2 which some of you may have figured out by now I'm in love with.

 

[Greyfox]

How to know when to re-barrel? Whether the barrel is new or well used, the shooting precision(group size) is the primary indicator. Sometimes it's obvious, other times, not so much, as indicated by the periodic "flyer" from a barrel that otherwise shoots very tight groups. This is more difficult to confirm. In terms of used barrels that have performed well, it's easy if you simply wait for groups to deteriorate. This is not a good approach if it happens in the middle of the hunting/competition season. I have a few considerations to determine when to rebarrel "before" I get stuck.

-General(published) barrel life expectations for the particular cartridge, based in type of usage....ie. I know I should start checking my 6.5x284's at 1000-1200 rounds. My 6.5x47L at 2000 rounds....based on my particular applications.
-Once the barrel is broken in and stabilized with my load, I will keep a specific bullet(s) and record an accurate BTO measurement. This is used to keep track of any throat erosion. A .001-.003" increase, even if groups still look good is an good early indicator that the barrel is degrading.
-Using my Lyman Bore Scope(excellent investment that works!!), I will check bore condition. Watching for cleaning carbon/ copper in a routine basis helps barrel life. More importantly, fire cracking in the throat, mostly in the first 1/4" where the 'rifling" starts is one of the main culprits of flyers/poor groups...IMO.

While there are no sure fire methods, looking at a combination of the above factors has worked well for getting a barrel life expectation of my barrels/loads, and anticipating replacement INO.