What makes the 6.5 PRC special?

[MudRunner2005]

I believe it was Norma that made the brass for Lapua, but it still proved my point... Did they literally smelt and form the brass? No. But it did say "Lapua" on it, and was commissioned by them...So on a technicality, yes, they did make belted cases.

And also, Kevin stating that they WANT to make belted cases, shows they have no bias towards them, they've just never had that mold...Yet.

 

[Predator 22]

I've still yet to hear anyone mention how there is an advantage to a non-belted case, other than illogical fallacies that were perpetuated years ago by some company trying to push their non-belted case designs...

And what are the advantages, if any, of a belt? I've asked this question before and didn't hear anything but crickets.......

 

[MudRunner2005]

And what are the advantages, if any, of a belt? I've asked this question before and didn't hear anything but crickets.......

There is no more advantages than there are disadvantages. It just is what it is. It's a different way of headspacing. I don't understand what is so hard about this concept for people. It's neither better or worse, it's the same function, just in a different form.

I own many belted and non-belted cartridges, and have had zero problems these folks keep talking about with belted cases. Mine all function exactly the same. In some of them I get as many loadings as I do with non-belted cartridges of similar performance.

It just is what it is... Arguing about which is better, will never go anywhere, because if you know what you're doing with setting up dies and resizing your brass properly, then you'll get the same performance from both belted and non-belted cases.

 

[Predator 22]

Thank you for your answer and that is my problem with the belt. It is not needed therefore to me is useless. And their is one undeniable advantage to a belt less cartridge. More powder capacity for the same length of case. Don't take this as I'm a belted case hater. I have one and wouldn't mind having another one.........or two.

 

[TG-5150]

Your profile picture to the left is a badass boat....

So..... he is on another forum. I knew it - knew it for sure

 

[MudRunner2005]

Thank you for your answer and that is my problem with the belt. It is not needed therefore to me is useless. And their is one undeniable advantage to a belt less cartridge. More powder capacity for the same length of case. Don't take this as I'm a belted case hater. I have one and wouldn't mind having another one.........or two.

The non-belted cases only hold more powder because they were designed from a different parent case, and designed to different specs. Most all (not all, but most all) belted cases derived from the .375 H&H Magnum, which came about in 1912... The .375 H&H inspired the .300 H&H, which later inspired all of the American magnums until the RUM cartridges came along, and were designed from the .404 Jeffery parent case. The .404 Jeffery has been around longer (1905), but by around 1960 it had almost completely died and disappeared. It was used in small circles of shooters, but it really wasn't used commercially again until 1999 when Remington introduced the .300 RUM cartridge, which quickly spurred the .338 RUM and .375 RUM in 2000, followed by the 7mm RUM in 2002.

 

[TG-5150]

Absolutely not, but I'd rather have a .30 Nosler than a .300WM. Simply because everyone has a .300WM.

Awwwhhh... come on. R ya sure it's cause it doesn't sport a belt.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Awwwhhh... come on. R ya sure it's cause it doesn't sport a belt.

1000% positive...Because I actually do have a .300WM, a very nice one, and have no desire to shoot it. Swapped and tuned the trigger myself, torqued the action screws to 65 inch-pounds, mounted a nice SWFA SS 3-15x42 MQ scope on it in a nice set of Seekins rings on an EGW HD 20MOA base. I bought 150 brand new Norma brass, have load development loads already loaded and ready for testing, but never pulled the trigger on a live round, and had it since 2014. I have no love for the cartridge at all, and no desire to shoot the rifle.

So, yeah... Pretty positive it has nothing to do with the belt. Plus, I have numerous 7mm STW, 7mm RemMag, and .300 Ackley, rifles, all of which have belts, that I have no issue with.

 

[Predator 22]

The non-belted cases only hold more powder because they were designed from a different parent case, and designed to different specs. Most all (not all, but most all) belted cases derived from the .375 H&H Magnum, which came about in 1912... The .375 H&H inspired the .300 H&H, which later inspired all of the American magnums until the RUM cartridges came along, and were designed from the .404 Jeffery parent case. The .404 Jeffery has been around longer (1905), but by around 1960 it had almost completely died and disappeared. It was used in small circles of shooters, but it really wasn't used commercially again until 1999 when Remington introduced the .300 RUM cartridge, which quickly spurred the .338 RUM and .375 RUM in 2000, followed by the 7mm RUM in 2002.

Relevance of the history lesson?
Obviously they were designed from different parent cases. The fact is that for the same rim diameter and the same length( as base to body shoulder and base to neck shoulder) a beltless case has more capacity compaired to a belted case.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Relevance of the history lesson?
Obviously they were designed from different parent cases. The fact is that for the same rim diameter and the same length( as base to body shoulder and base to neck shoulder) a beltless case has more capacity compaired to a belted case.

Relevance of the history lessen was that most belted mags are from a skinnier parent case, than the non-belted magnums. That is why the non-belted cases appear to hold more powder than the belted cases. It's simply a design feature, not because one has a belt or not. Just to give you a prime example... The .30-378 Weatherby case holds ~133 grains of powder, that's 23 MORE grains of powder than the .300 RUM. Belted case holds more powder than the non-belted and still fits in the same action. Myth busted...

If the 6.5 CM and 6.5 PRC had a belt on it, I bet yall would still be drooling over it, and would be defending the belted design, instead of vise-versa...

 

[Predator 22]

Relevance of the history lessen was that most belted mags are from a skinnier parent case, than the non-belted magnums. That is why the non-belted cases appear to hold more powder than the belted cases. It's simply a design feature, not because one has a belt or not. Just to give you a prime example... The .30-378 Weatherby case holds ~133 grains of powder, that's 23 MORE grains of powder than the .300 RUM. Belted case holds more powder than the non-belted and still fits in the same action. Myth busted...

If the 6.5 CM and 6.5 PRC had a belt on it, I bet yall would still be drooling over it, and would be defending the belted design, instead of vise-versa...

The 30-378 has a larger rim diameter. Not myth. FACT! Reread my post. If you have two cases with the same rim diameter, the same measurement from base to body shoulder junction, same measurement from base to neck shoulder junction and the same length. The beltless case has more capacity.

 

[MudRunner2005]

The 30-378 has a larger rim diameter. Not myth. FACT! Reread my post. If you have two cases with the same rim diameter, the same measurement from base to body shoulder junction, same measurement from base to neck shoulder junction and the same length. The beltless case has more capacity.

Had someone written that ******** article the other direction, and talked crap about non-belted cases, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. That has led to so much misinformation out there using the non-belted agenda. Same thing the MSM does to push the Dem/Lib agenda...Doesn't matter how big of a lie it is, it's their agenda, and they're going to pimp it out for all it's worth.

The .300 Norma has the same base and rim diameter as the .30-378 Wby, but it only has 110gr capacity... The .338 lapua same, only has 114gr. My point is, that just because a case has a belt, doesn't mean it holds less capacity. Capacity has more to do than just base and rim diameter. It has to do with the parent case, and the rest of the cartridge's design and dimensions. So, yeah, we're still at myth busted as to same rim diameter means more capacity in a non-belted case... And the reason was explained 2 sentences prior to this one.

 

[User4302021]

Show me evidence that you can load a non-belted case more times than a belted case strictly because the belt being there. You can't. Plain and simple.

Last I checked, the shoulder and the belt have nothing to do with each other...They're on opposite ends. My shoulders resize just fine on my belted cases. Setting your dies up properly goes a long way.

The feeding rails on an action and the lips on Magazines start ramping from the front, not the back, the front starts, the back follows. Try again...

Your last example is the best... Obviously you have no idea that Lapua used to make .300 WinMag ammo...In Lapua brand brass.

Being a 300 Winmag shooter for almost 20 years now, every single one of those complaints comes from personal experience shooting about 4,000+ rounds through 2 guns and 4 barrels and 3 different stocks. I also own 4 different die sets from Hornady, RCBS, Forster and Redding, and have gone through literally a 5 gallon bucket full of brass. I also have been shooting regularly with several other 300 Winmag owners during that time. So.... I might have a little bit of perspective on it.

Lapua quit making 300 Winmag brass about 15 years or so ago. Which is why I said,"...when was the last time you saw it"?

 

[MudRunner2005]

Being a 300 Winmag shooter for almost 20 years now, every single one of those complaints comes from personal experience shooting about 4,000+ rounds through 2 guns and 4 barrels and 3 different stocks. I also own 4 different die sets from Hornady, RCBS, Forster and Redding, and have gone through literally a 5 gallon bucket full of brass. I also have been shooting regularly with several other 300 Winmag owners during that time. So.... I might have a little bit of perspective on it.

Lapua quit making 300 Winmag brass about 15 years or so ago. Which is why I said,"...when was the last time you saw it"?

I never said you didn't know what you were talking about, but most folks who talk **** about belted cases, seem to have zero experience with them, heard they were bad from some other moron who also doesn't have any experience with them, or read it on the interwebz, or just prefer the non-belted and want to talk crap.

This thread has gone WAY out in left field... I'm done debating for the night. Repeating myself is giving me a migraine...

Yall have fun.