What frequency of Annealing for best case life and consisitent accuracy?

[jimbires]

here are a few links I dug up . I've annealed different ways , but wasn't satisfied . 6 or 8 years ago I bought a ballistic edge annealer . I've pretty much used his directions on annealing . on the one link he says that over annealed brass will be dull and you can pinch the neck by bare fingers . there is info everywhere , some good , some not so good . I'd say in a nut shell that you want to get the brass to 750* , but not over and make it glow . do this quickly , 4 or 5 seconds max , so the heat doesn't travel down the case . they say brass does not anneal quickly until it reaches 750* , but hornady supplies 650* with their annealing kit , go figure . there was a thread not long ago on accurate shooter , wasn't much agreement between the guys there either , imagine that . I'm leaving for a hunt tomorrow . I'll be interested in reading this thread when I get back . Jim

http://www.ballisticedgemfg.com/about-annealing.html

http://www.ballisticedgemfg.com/how-to-anneal.html

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/case-annealing-which-looks-correct.3934795/

 

[Buckskinner]

For a guy who admittedly 'doesn't know' ... you sure are doing your utmost best to silence someone who does. Sad.

Don't be so sensitive, you sound like my wife... Just asking where that info was from so I can learn more about it. Have no desire to silence you, as a matter of fact just the opposite. I am not so hard-headed that I cannot change my tactics for the better if facts dictate. Asking for reference is by no means out of line in research.

I found a vid from Starline brass where they were annealing the starting slugs at 1100 degs but did not say for how long. But that was just a chunk of brass, not formed into bottleneck.

 

[shphtr]

So how do you use that crayon for annealing? All they do is tell if you've reached that temperature not if you've gotten it too hot. Since brass dissipated heat very quickly, by the time you hit it with the crayon it has lost a lot of heat already and if it melts, well you've gotten to that stick temp, but how far above???

Not trying to slam your method, trying to find the best way to do it by reasoning it out... I've posted this before but it seems true. "IMO, annealing is the most misunderstood process in the reloading realm. You can find 10 different guys each with their own methodology, each substantially differing from each other and every one of those guys will say that their method is correct. Maybe they are, likely they aren't. All you have to do is figure out which one to believe..." Myself included...

 

[shphtr]

Very satisfied with results from: https://www.ampannealing.com/

 

[Buckskinner]

THAT IS AWESOME!!!

 

[Rich Coyle]

Hi guys. Since their are annealing experts watching this thread, I have a question. Any and all comments are welcome. I am currently fire forming some 300 weatherby to 7 stw. I run the stw sizing die down on the new nosler brass. It basically only neck sizes and doesn't touch any other part of the case. I fire form starting loads with a light bullet to change the shoulder. First is this a good-safe practice? second at what piont should the brass be annealed. Thanks for the help.

Since I have done a few wildcats I discovered you need to anneal before you fireform. Otherwise you split shoulders. Apparently it is safe since wildcaters have been doing this for generations. All the original medium Weatherby cartridges (before the .460) came from blown out .300 H&H cases. I made several hundred 7-.300 Weatherby cases using .300 H&H brass.

 

[iowaelkbum]

Thanks Rich, your comment was appreciated!

 

[Full Curl]

Great discussion everybody. For the "regular joe" who enjoys precision hand loading for sub-MOA accuracy (not world record accuracy) and does not want to drop $1000+ on a fancy machine what is the best, safest, and most consistent method to anneal brass? I appreciate you guys that have the machines and take that level of pride and care in your reloading, but it's just not an option for me.

 

[Buckskinner]

Mine cost me about $35. Here is a link to a long string about making them on AR-15.com
https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/DIY-Annealing-Machine/42-434088/?page=1

And another string with a pic of mine and parts list used.
https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/annealing-machines.184626/page-2

Salt or lead dip may even be cheaper and some say better... I prefer just turning on the torch and going, but that is just my opinion.

 

[ChrisInKY]

For the "regular joe" who enjoys precision hand loading for sub-MOA accuracy (not world record accuracy) and does not want to drop $1000+ on a fancy machine what is the best, safest, and most consistent method to anneal brass?

CaptC posted a video for you. I only looked at the picture displayed there, but it's apparent the case is being rotated with a variable speed drill.

You could best learn how to do this by holding the brass in your hand (if that's not demo'd on that video). The advantage to this method is that you're probably not going to bare-hand the case walls of your brass if they get up to 400°F. Another trick to help ensure too much heat isn't migrating into your case web is to simply stand the cases on their heads instead of dropping them into a pile once you've had them under the torch.

If you'll pay the ~$20 for a bottle of Tempilaq ... paint the inside of some throw-away cases and figure out just how long it takes for your brass to fully anneal by temperature and based on how much flame you're hitting the neck-shoulder junction with. If even this is too much of an expense, get into a dark room, and don't exceed a dull-red that's gone as soon as you remove the flame. When you get good at that, stop a bit before it turns dull red.

The drawback to dull-red is that you're now starting to risk over-annealing your brass. If you were able to follow the other posts I've made in this thread, you would be able to ensure your brass becomes more de-stressed throughout the hand-loading process and your control over neck tension is maximized without risk. The higher-end annealing machines are so fast and require so little process that the effort can't even be considered a chore. Dropping that kind of coin was a tough bullet to bite for me. Almost as tough as buying a lathe to turn necks with.

Straight-up: Quenching won't harden your brass, but it certainly will stop the annealing process in its tracks (same diff in my book). Considering how long the annealing process goes on for, quenching is simply adding a measure of inconsistency to a process that demands just the opposite. And, believe me, you'll want to let them sit for a long long time before moving along in your re-loading process. If you don't let them sit and naturally de-stress, you're going to start noticing your measurements aren't what they were a while ago.

 

[CaptnC]

I made a simple tool to hold the case. I was not to fond of the wobble in the case with a socket.

So I came with this;

5/16" bolt and 5/8" tygon tubing. I also used a o-ring to help keep the tubing from slipping on the nut. I think if you put it in boiling water you could shrink the tubing to fit the bolt better.

If you press down on the case and slowly depress the trigger on the drill it will self center. I very surprised how true they would turn.

The above has a 264wm case that I had annealed and buffed with 000 steel wool. It has also been through the sizing die a ready too.

Magnum case fit tight in the 5/8" tube and put an extra o-ring where the case goes for a non-magnum case.

How about some of you guys who have been doing this a while post a picture of a finished case...just so us rookies can see the color we are after.

OLT-don't use an acetylene torch...I thinks too hot. I used the smallest tip I have and even staying out of the bright blue part of the flame it was instantly changing color.

 

[Buckskinner]

Color is not a good indicator of correctly annealed case. I assume you are referring to finished case not at peak temp...

 

[Mikecr]

It's true that color is not an indicator of proper anneal.
I lead dip. There is similar salt dipping available now. This applies the correct temperature to both inside/outside. You might as well just concede that it's perfect(it is), set at ~800deg, dipping for any amount of time over ~10 seconds.
With this, there is no color change and very little change in shade of brass(hot or cold).

The surface appearance from other methods is due to excess temperatures applied to the outer surface. The outer surface brass composition can change with this. The ductility here is an average result between outer/inner surfaces. it's nowhere near perfect, and you're only lucky that it works well enough I guess(I've personally never used torch methods).

I see inductive annealing, while complicated/very limited, as being a small improvement over timed flame. But still a ways from dipping precision, and a mile away in practicality.

 

[Edd]

What do you use to hold the case when dipping it?