What frequency of Annealing for best case life and consisitent accuracy?

[jimbires]

If you cannot tell when brass is over-annealed then most likely you are over-annealing...

you lost me , can you explain this better ?


if I set up on my junk brass and lets say I use the tempilaq inside the case neck . get the timing right . then I switch to my exact same good brass , how am I over-annealing ? I've never researched over annealed brass , because I never seemed to have a problem related to it .

 

[Buckskinner]

That's why I said "likely" and not "you are". Your method may be perfect, I haven't seen it. But, it's pretty important to know when you are damaging your brass and imo you are better off to under-anneal than over. As I said prior, if you are seeing other elements being burned out of your brass then you are over-annealing, doesn't matter what the tempilaq is telling you.

If you watch you-tube you will see many people demonstrating how to anneal and wrecking their brass. A lot even say to get the neck to glow, crazy... In the video posted earlier you can see even in the bright room that he is over-annealing his brass, some are even beginning to get red-hot. Then every couple pieces of brass he said "there's a good one". Well, not really a secret, but they all need to be good ones in precision loading/shooting...

 

[oldfortyfiveauto]

After years of annealing the procedure I've settled in on is to adjust the machine in a dark room until the brass just shows a hint of dull red. I've messed with a number of ways to use Tempalstik and have never been happy with trying to verify the turning point on such small pieces.

 

[Buckskinner]

From what I've researched, a hint of red is too hot. But there are so many conflicting opinions on the subject who knows...

 

[iowaelkbum]

Hi guys. Since their are annealing experts watching this thread, I have a question. Any and all comments are welcome. I am currently fire forming some 300 weatherby to 7 stw. I run the stw sizing die down on the new nosler brass. It basically only neck sizes and doesn't touch any other part of the case. I fire form starting loads with a light bullet to change the shoulder. First is this a good-safe practice? second at what piont should the brass be annealed. Thanks for the help.

 

[Buckskinner]

Above my pay grade and I am by far no expert either... I would think you would want to turn the necks though. Others here will have your answers...

I've only gotten into annealing this past year after reading about it for several. Always seemed like conflicting information and I could not separate the seed from the chaff. Annealing is easy, doing it correctly is the tricky part...

 

[oldfortyfiveauto]

From what I've researched, a hint of red is too hot. But there are so many conflicting opinions on the subject who knows...

By the time you see the Tempalstik turn you're there, like it or not. You're dealing with such a small amount of brass that things happen fast under the torch. As best I have been able to tell the brass seems to end up about right.

 

[Buckskinner]

So how do you use that crayon for annealing? All they do is tell if you've reached that temperature not if you've gotten it too hot. Since brass dissipated heat very quickly, by the time you hit it with the crayon it has lost a lot of heat already and if it melts, well you've gotten to that stick temp, but how far above???

Not trying to slam your method, trying to find the best way to do it by reasoning it out... I've posted this before but it seems true. "IMO, annealing is the most misunderstood process in the reloading realm. You can find 10 different guys each with their own methodology, each substantially differing from each other and every one of those guys will say that their method is correct. Maybe they are, likely they aren't. All you have to do is figure out which one to believe..." Myself included...

 

[CaptnC]

It looking to me that if the brass changes color you're there. It appears from what Buck is saying and I agree even though I've never annealed a case yet.

It appears the benefit of annealing has a wide range "done correctly" that's why it works for so many who do it totally differently!

It appears that as long as you don't burn the brass you will get the benefit of doing it.

 

[oldfortyfiveauto]

So how do you use that crayon for annealing? All they do is tell if you've reached that temperature not if you've gotten it too hot. Since brass dissipated heat very quickly, by the time you hit it with the crayon it has lost a lot of heat already and if it melts, well you've gotten to that stick temp, but how far above???

Not trying to slam your method, trying to find the best way to do it by reasoning it out... I've posted this before but it seems true. "IMO, annealing is the most misunderstood process in the reloading realm. You can find 10 different guys each with their own methodology, each substantially differing from each other and every one of those guys will say that their method is correct. Maybe they are, likely they aren't. All you have to do is figure out which one to believe..." Myself included...

Actually used the paint on type. Tempalstik was just the brand. When it does turn, its change happens so fast. I tried using a temperature gun, but the temperature drops too fast when you remove the heat to get a good reading. One thing is certain, you definitely know when you overdo it. The surface of the brass gets rough and has a burnt look to it. My brass typically comes out a little lighter looking than the annealing you see on typical milsurp brass. Using my non-precision pliers squeeze method I can say there is a noticeable difference in the annealed vs non. Some day if I get ambitious I'll make up a test fixture using a force gauge so I can measure the change when squeezing.

 

[oldfortyfiveauto]

...
It appears that as long as you don't burn the brass you will get the benefit of doing it.

That pretty much sums it up. As long as you don't overdo it you've done no harm. What really matters is you're consistent.

 

[ChrisInKY]

As best I have been able to tell the brass seems to end up about right.

Yep. Some cartridge brass manufacturers use an alloy that consists of more than copper and zinc. I can't tell by looking at a finished case and the ammunition manufacturers don't label their product as such. That leaves some guess work if you're trying to tightly control neck tension, but the 'dull red in a dark room' you mentioned is nowhere near overdoing it.

Considering that a bottle-neck case is annealed for hours (at least twice) at temps exceeding 1000°F we're pretty safe with what we're doing with our propane torches.

To the fella that asked what happens if you over-anneal: You can throw a piece of your case neck down the barrel. If it gets stuck there and you send another round down the bore ...

 

[Buckskinner]

Considering that a bottle-neck case is annealed for hours (at least twice) at temps exceeding 1000°F we're pretty safe with what we're doing with our propane torches.

That may be when they are in the pressing stage from a slug of brass, but I doubt when in bottleneck stage... And hours??? Would like to see where you got your info there.

Here is a link with some good info on annealing and other reloading stuff. Like limits for components in Mass... Wow!!!

http://www.massreloading.com/annealing.html

 

[ChrisInKY]

And hours??? Would like to see where you got your info there.

For a guy who admittedly 'doesn't know' ... you sure are doing your utmost best to silence someone who does. Sad.