Utah cow and Barnes TSX

[OldBronc]

I'd be all over the 130 TTSX and or the 150 TTSX. Keep if you use a bullet long enough (any of them) will sooner or later do something that makes you go hmm........wreck the lungs and they're toast. Zero reason to shoot for the shoulders and muck up all that good meat!

Yep. I've taken a number of elk with both of those bullets, and they performed quite well. A few years ago I started shooting the 137 gr. Hammer Hunter in my .308, and it has worked even better, in that I get much better accuracy at longer ranges.

 

[OldElkHunter1961]

Of course my anecdotal experiences are no double blind, peer reviewed study by Johns Hopkins, or JPL, but...

I've had poor results with mono-metal bullets. Terminal performance and repeatable accuracy have both been less than ideal.

I've had quite excellent performance over the years with Nosler Accubonds and Partitions, as well as Hornady Interlocks and Sierra Game Kings in rifles. And a whole lot of hard-cast (BHN ~16) Keith bullets in revolvers.

I know these aren't sexy, cutting edge of technology answers. But, results speak for themselves as evidenced by a lot of deer, goat, elk and bear meat going into the freezer over the years.

 

[Tidus56]

Was successful on a cow elk last week. It was a chip shot for most of you at 190 yards with a 308 shooting 165 grain Barnes tsx bullets. I'm a little disappointed to say the least. First shot I thought was perfect and blow out the shoulder on the exit side. The animal didn't flinch but only had 3 legs left with the front should blown out when the bullet exited the body. It turned towards me and I put it in the front of the chest. 2 good hits and the cow was still standing for a couple minutes and went down.

When I butchered the animal I found the heart had been hit 2 times. Once from the side and the second was when I hit it standing straight looking at me. Only damage was pencil size holes with zero "damage" from impact. I was not able to recover the 2nd bullet to see if it opened at all.

I was not impressed with the Barnes performance at all. I hunt in CA so I have to use nonlead. The only other animals I have taken with these bullets are pigs and they have always been head shots and went down instantly. I want to start loading Hammers and hope they help next season when I am back chasing elk and deer in the mountains.

I have seen similar performance on a bull elk. 7 hits with a 7RUM with the TTSX. Bull was eventually found, but the damage was perplexing as there were 4 hard vital hits that looked like an FMJ had passed through.

 

[Glenn Tullius]

Elk don't like dying. They just stand there and take it. I once blew the bottom half of a heart off and he started walking up the mountain like he got a bee sting...300 RUM 180 grain TTSX doing 3250fps!! Went 20 yards and just as I was going to give him the cou de gras he looked at me and fell over.

Another time I hit one at 200 yards with a 250 grain Partition out of my 338 WM, double lung, and he chased a cow without even flinching for 75 yards!

A third time I hit a bull 200 yards up the steep mountain with a 200 grain Hornady Interlock right behind the shoulder with the same 338 WM. It took me 20 minutes to hike to him, all the while laying there still trying to breath!

Bottom line on big elk, they DON'T LIKE DYING. With enormous lungs and a lot of blood, you can expect at times performance like you described with a good shot, good caliber, and a good bullet.

 

[OldBronc]

Elk don't like dying. They just stand there and take it. I once blew the bottom half of a heart off and he started walking up the mountain like he got a bee sting...300 RUM 180 grain TTSX doing 3250fps!! Went 20 yards and just as I was going to give him the cou de gras he looked at me and fell over.

Another time I hit one at 200 yards with a 250 grain Partition out of my 338 WM, double lung, and he chased a cow without even flinching for 75 yards!

A third time I hit a bull 200 yards up the steep mountain with a 200 grain Hornady Interlock right behind the shoulder with the same 338 WM. It took me 20 minutes to hike to him, all the while laying there still trying to breath!

Bottom line on big elk, they DON'T LIKE DYING. With enormous lungs and a lot of blood, you can expect at times performance like you described with a good shot, good caliber, and a good bullet.

Indeed. I've taken over 30 elk, with Partitions, Accubonds, Interlocks, TTSX, and now Hammer bullets, and I can recall instances where the elk didn't drop as quickly as I thought it would. And some of those were just as you described, with the heart or lungs being destroyed. It's also amazing how far the weight of an adult elk will carry it when it runs down hill. Gravity, and all that. I love the Barnes and Hammers, and I just spend time behind the rifle to work up accurate loads, and then make sure I take ethical shots within my maximum effective range. IMO we owe the elk that, regardless of the bullet we choose.

 

[Gmac]

I've taken seven elk with the Barnes MRX (7MM) and I have only had one that didn't drop to the floor immediately ... The one that didn't drop immediately took 4 steps and fell over..... I suppose there may have also been some luck on my side, but all of the barnes bullets recovered opened perfectly.... and all look the same.
Shot placement is everything..... I cringed at the above story where a bull was shot 7 times .... with any bullet or caliber.

 

[VinceMule]

KSB, I used a 243 Winchester with 100g partitions at 3100 fps on cows. Massive internal damage to say the least.

With the 130g ttsx, I doubt if you would ever recover a bullet in a cow elk....no kidding. With varget, you can get the velocity up to 3100-3200 depending on your barrel length, and I shoot Win 748 with the 130 ttsx with a mv of 3165 on a 24" bbl.

When using mono's, I believe it is prudent to drop down at a minimum of one weight class if not two.

 

[cabelasken]

I've started to use the LRX Barnes bullets. Dropped a cow last year at 420 yds and the year before at 100 yds. both perfect wound channels without a significant amount of bloodshot meat. My friends and I have taken well over 30 animals with various forms of the Barnes TSX and TTSX and now the LRX bullets. No problems encountered here. Half were elk and half were deer. Only two required follow up shots but neither had moved from the spot they were first hit.

 

[ajkellerusmc]

Per a phone conversation with Barnes' tech support, the .308 168gr TTSX will open up down to 1500fps. If I remember correctly (I didn't write that one down), the 165 TSX opens up down to only 1900fps. To me, that 400fps difference would seem to indicate the 165 is much harder to get to expand.

Here are some other numbers I've gathered from calls to Barnes. All .308 diameter:

180 TTSX = 1500
175 LRX = 1600
190 LRX = 1600
200 LRX = 1600
208 LRX = 1700
130 TTSX = 1800
150 TTSX = 1500

I find it interesting....Barnes must be playing with materials and/or construction to get such variations...

This fall I'm hoping to use my 1885 in 45-70 deer hunting with the Barnes 300gr TTSX. They tell me it opens up down to 1100fps. It should be interesting to see how fat and slow performs

Please post your results with the 45-70.

 

[KSB209]

Glad you all have had success. Do you think the TIPPED TTXS Barnes is better at "opening up" due to the plastic tip or is the tip more for BC????

 

[OldBronc]

Glad you all have had success. Do you think the TIPPED TTXS Barnes is better at "opening up" due to the plastic tip or is the tip more for BC????

I believe Barnes designed it with the tip to initiate expansion quicker. I think you will find the 130 gr. or 150 gr. TTSX will perform very well in your .308 (or an in between like the 137 gr. Hammer Hunter). Like some have posted, drop down in weight in order to drive them faster. Good luck no matter what route you go!

 

[mnoland30]

I use 405 gr. Remington .45-70 bullets in my my muzzleloader for cow elk. They are moving at about the same velocity as a centerfire .45-70. They were hollow pointed for me by Outlaw State Bullets. They have been devastating on elk out to 220 yards. Three dropped in their tracks, and the 4th went about 35 yards. I have found that tipped bullets don't leave much of an entrance wound, which means less blood trail. If the bullet doesn't exit, then no blood trail.

 

[cabelasken]

The bullets that do massive internal damage do it becasue they grenade on impact and shed a ton of weight. Many never exit. If you get enough penetration that is a pretty good outcome, though you may lose a lot of meat. Barnes on the other hand is designed to retain nearly 100% of its weight, expand and penetrate no matter what it has to go through. Heavy bone may deflect it but it won't stop it.

There are endless combinations in between. The vaunted Nosler partition was designed to accommodate both, the front expanded quickly and often separates while the base stays together and penetrates. Picking the right bullet for the job is the Key. You don't need a bullet near as tough as a Barnes to shoot small deer and the like where penetration isn't a problem. Where you need penetration, Hogs, Cape Buffalo, shooting Elk and moose in the shoulder, the Barnes is a good choice.

Bulet makers have been trying for the perfect combination of expansion, high speed to create Hydrostatic shock, and penetration, for decades. There is no perfect bullet for every situation, the user must pick what the most likely use case and scenarios are. A Barnes Varmint Grenda is a great round for gophers, yotes and the like, will kill deer but not the optimal choice. It is simply a matter of recognizing that you got the result intended by the bullet maker, even if you think it should be something else.

I totally agree with your analysis. I've had to follow up on several elk where the bullet was slightly off or didn't penetrate enough to keep the elk anchored. For myself,I prefer a bullet that stays together and penetrates far enough to reach the vitals from almost any angle. Barnes bullets in various forms will do that, and so will others that are designed simarily. Also, most game animals are taken under 400 yds and most calibers will maintain a 2000 FPS impact velocity at that range so expansion WILL occur. At 500 or 600 yds, some calibers drop off enough so that reliable expansion with a TSX bullet may not happen. I've never lost an animal from a Barnes bullet failure and neither has any of my friends that use them. But, most of our shots are under 450 yds and well within the boilerhouse of any form of Barnes bullets. And I've seen enough failures from cheap factory loaded ammo that I will never use them.

 

[Lee Deming]

Of course my anecdotal experiences are no double blind, peer reviewed study by Johns Hopkins, or JPL, but...

I've had poor results with mono-metal bullets. Terminal performance and repeatable accuracy have both been less than ideal.

I've had quite excellent performance over the years with Nosler Accubonds and Partitions, as well as Hornady Interlocks and Sierra Game Kings in rifles. And a whole lot of hard-cast (BHN ~16) Keith bullets in revolvers.

I know these aren't sexy, cutting edge of technology answers. But, results speak for themselves as evidenced by a lot of deer, goat, elk and bear meat going into the freezer over the years.

I must say that my .375 loves the Accubonds. Put a new scope on it a few months back and the smith sighted it in with my 260-grain handloads. A 7-shot group at 100 yards was .919".