Utah cow and Barnes TSX

[OldElkHunter1961]

A couple reinforcements of earlier posts:

1. A well hit elk is unlikely to drop at the shot unless it's a central nervous system impact. It's blood pressure will drop precipitously with a double lung shot and tip over in a couple minutes.

2. I've had similar experiences with the TTSX at lower velocities. But if 2200-2400 FPS won't "open a bullet" it's time to look elsewhere. I did.

3. There's only 4 quarters on an Elk. Intentionally making one your POA-POI loses a good bit of meat. There's not a mammal on earth that'll live long with both lungs well punctured. Nick one lung on an elk and you may be in for a very long day.

Enjoy the hunt.

 

[Lee Deming]

Not sure what you were expecting exactly. 40 years ago I shot a bull at close range. It just stood there. Thinking I had missed, I shot it again. It took off and ran about 50 yards. I hit him twice in the heart with full expansion. The last deer I shot ran 40 yards after I shot him in the heart and I could see blood pumping out of his side. He was already trotting when I shot him. Most of the game I have seen killed have only dropped in their tracks when hit in the shoulder or spine.

 

[Cory Bache]

Was successful on a cow elk last week. It was a chip shot for most of you at 190 yards with a 308 shooting 165 grain Barnes tsx bullets. I'm a little disappointed to say the least. First shot I thought was perfect and blow out the shoulder on the exit side. The animal didn't flinch but only had 3 legs left with the front should blown out when the bullet exited the body. It turned towards me and I put it in the front of the chest. 2 good hits and the cow was still standing for a couple minutes and went down.

When I butchered the animal I found the heart had been hit 2 times. Once from the side and the second was when I hit it standing straight looking at me. Only damage was pencil size holes with zero "damage" from impact. I was not able to recover the 2nd bullet to see if it opened at all.

I was not impressed with the Barnes performance at all. I hunt in CA so I have to use nonlead. The only other animals I have taken with these bullets are pigs and they have always been head shots and went down instantly. I want to start loading Hammers and hope they help next season when I am back chasing elk and deer in the mountains.

If you shoot them in the shoulders you are way better of with monolithic bullets. For God sakes don't use Hornady eldx or burgers. You won't have much meat to put in the freezer.

 

[randonee]

Per a phone conversation with Barnes' tech support, the .308 168gr TTSX will open up down to 1500fps. If I remember correctly (I didn't write that one down), the 165 TSX opens up down to only 1900fps. To me, that 400fps difference would seem to indicate the 165 is much harder to get to expand.

Here are some other numbers I've gathered from calls to Barnes. All .308 diameter:

180 TTSX = 1500
175 LRX = 1600
190 LRX = 1600
200 LRX = 1600
208 LRX = 1700
130 TTSX = 1800
150 TTSX = 1500

I find it interesting....Barnes must be playing with materials and/or construction to get such variations...

This fall I'm hoping to use my 1885 in 45-70 deer hunting with the Barnes 300gr TTSX. They tell me it opens up down to 1100fps. It should be interesting to see how fat and slow performs

This corresponds to the numbers I've been given by Barnes. I'd note that I was told not to use the 165 in a 308 Win, but use the 168, which is what they use in their loaded ammo for the 308. The shape of the 165 is different than the 168, and the 165 is also tougher and made for higher velocity rounds.

I was also told that the 150 ttsx component bullet needs higher FPS than the 150 ttsx used in their 308 loaded ammo. I was told this is to make sure the component bullet will work at shorter distances in magnum cartridges.

I've shot one bull with the 165 ttsx. Impact velocity would have been about 2,250 fps. Double lung and bullet recovered on the offside hide. The bullet "just" expanded enough. I've read other folks who suggest adding a few hundred fps to Barnes numbers (Barnes should really just publicly post them), and that was my feeling based on my one experience.

 

[littlebighorn]

I have long been a fan of monos and I used to shoot Barnes TTSX but I have recently converted to Hammers. So far they have performed very well in the field on a bull elk and a bighorn sheep. The tip of the Hammer fragmented in both cases causing more damage than Barnes and yet the shank totally penetrated both animals. I am now switching to Hammers in all my hunting rifles.

 

[Lovellr653]

I've switched to almost exclusively TTSX bullets for hunting. I reload them for my 243, 260 and 3006 all have killed deer well. I have noticed from my experiences A) The animals tend to run a bit further than compared to a traditional lead core bullet. B) The blood trails are often slow to start C) I always find the dead deer about 60-100yds away. D) There is way less meat damage than a lead core bullet. E) With a light fast bullet from a 243 I am not worried about lack of penetration if I hit a shoulder. I would like to try the Hammers or Lazers but have enough TTSX to last me quite a while. As others have said a heart or double lung shot typically won't end with "bang flop". Congrats on harvesting an Elk!

 

[ENGUNEER]

I too hate heart shots. I shot a whitetail a couple of years ago. It was about 40 yds away, broadside. I was using a 7mm Barnes LRX 145 gr at close to 3400 fps muzzle and I hit the heart and through both shoulders. The heart and part of the lungs were mush from bone fragments, but the deer still went about 70-80 yards pushing its nose in the grass. It hurt my heart (and my wife's) to see that poor deer go like that.

 

[2Old2Care]

My experience with the 6x7 bull in the background of my picture was exactly opposite of what most others have reported. The bull was shot through the lungs twice at 320 yards with a 300 WSM using the 165 TSX at just over 2900 fps/MV. The bull dropped, but got up and ran. There was no blood where the bull laid on the ground and no blood trail. After more than an hour of tracking disrupted pine needles and few tracks I found the bull dead in a mess of blowdowns. It had a very thick winter coat and no blood from the entrance wounds. The bullets didn't exit, and we found both fully mushroomed just under the skin on the off-side, within three inches of each other, after travelling through the lungs. Interestingly, hair was packed UNDER the bullet peddles, they had not sheared off, which means the bullets were fully mushroomed before contacting hide, meat, or bone. I assume that is what kept the bullets from exiting, since they had 'used all their energy' just getting to the hide on the off side. Not the performance I expected and in this case I wish the peddles would have sheered and the bullet would have exited so there may have been a blood trail to follow. Two years earlier, again on a winter bull (with shorter hair), the same bullet to the lungs from a 300 RUM at 400 yards exited and left a huge blood trail! I'm inclined to recommend the TTSX since I think that it might get through long hair better without opening prematurely. I still think Barnes makes a good product and will continue to use them, but think that I now understand their limitations better.

 

[Cubbear]

I've hunted cow elk in Arizona last 20 years using tika 30-06 150 gr ttsx bullets religiously and have had experienced your scensrio only once. bullet went between ribs thru heart exited between a rib the elk just stood there and walked in circles for a minute and then fell dead. The ttsx bullets have been devastating and most elk run no more than 60 yards. Where I hunt a 200-250 yard shot is a long shot. Consider the ttsx and I don't think you'll be disappointed. My hunting buddies and I use mono 130 gr gmx in hornady 270 caliber and the 150 ttsx in 30-06 for 20 years and we have never lost an elk. All ammo is factory loads also. I stand behind the mono to eliminate lead poisoning in the circle of life and protect the condors that call home near the Grand Canyon. Don't give up on your ammo. You recovered your elk and may have meat loss. Consider the ttsx bullet instead of of tsx. I'm excited to load the new hornady cx for trial run on pigs deer and elk in the future. Hope this helps.

 

[cavin_and]

Thanks for this post. Since joining this forum, I have seen a lot of folks that hate Barnes, and it is making me wonder. I have mixed results with TTSX. 210 grain 338 win mag on an oryx was an almost lengthwise pass through. Good expansion and penetration and it dropped in its tracks. 150 grain 308 double lung and took out the far shoulder. Adequate expansion, minimal meat loss and great penetration. I was sold on TTSX and began to load them exclusively. And then this year happened. 25-06 on a whitetail this year. My spotter was 100% positive that I hit it perfectly broadside for a double lung. We found one small patch of foamy blood with pieces of lung in it. Never found the deer and there was only a 3 acre patch of woods in the middle of 1000 acres of short wheat fields and bermuda grass. It never stopped running!!! I am still hoping for the best and will give them another try.

 

[BigNate]

Narrow wound channels are exactly what barnes bullets do. The ttsx not as much it seems, but close. If you must use Barnes, go lighter, faster, and shoot shoulders.
If you like saving the meat, and use heart/lungs as POA, try the Sierra GK 165 HPBT out of the 308w. They open well, and the jacket is thicker than the spbt.

 

[ajkellerusmc]

Was successful on a cow elk last week. It was a chip shot for most of you at 190 yards with a 308 shooting 165 grain Barnes tsx bullets. I'm a little disappointed to say the least. First shot I thought was perfect and blow out the shoulder on the exit side. The animal didn't flinch but only had 3 legs left with the front should blown out when the bullet exited the body. It turned towards me and I put it in the front of the chest. 2 good hits and the cow was still standing for a couple minutes and went down.

When I butchered the animal I found the heart had been hit 2 times. Once from the side and the second was when I hit it standing straight looking at me. Only damage was pencil size holes with zero "damage" from impact. I was not able to recover the 2nd bullet to see if it opened at all.

I was not impressed with the Barnes performance at all. I hunt in CA so I have to use nonlead. The only other animals I have taken with these bullets are pigs and they have always been head shots and went down instantly. I want to start loading Hammers and hope they help next season when I am back chasing elk and deer in the mountains.

I think barnes has gone downhill since they got bought out.

 

[memtb]

I think barnes has gone downhill since they got bought out.

I hope that you are wrong.....but, given the track records of various manufacturers across all venues (rv's to tools) you are probably right! memtb

 

[emp1953]

I had used a loaner Remington 600 Mohawk in .243win loaded with 100gr factory Hornady something or others. My rifle didn't make it off the plane. Anyway my guide told me exactly where to put the crosshairs at 212yds on an elk. I saw a puff of moisture from where I was aiming, the guide said good shot as I racked in another round. He told me not to shoot again, the 4x3 elk walked in a tight circle 4 times and fell over, a long 45 seconds after the hit. Those animals are big and tough, most of the chest cavity was jelly. I had new respect for that little .243 round.