uso or nf

[SCL]

HBAR,
I abandoned my "spook" (well military) days and became a diplomat thinking that things would be different in the diplomatic world instead of the military...I was incredibly wrong in that assumption. The same bias, corruption, and poilitics is played out in the international relations arena as it is in the Pentagon.

What I find incredibly sad (and frightening) is that we are in the middle of a global war on terror, and aren't even giving the good body armor to all of the troops in Iraq. Yeah, I know of the logistical problems involved, but should we penny pinching over this gear and not care about how much money USA has poured into the OICW project? Ask any of the current think tank professors at the war colleges and they will tell you that this war is asymetric and everyone is a potential "frontline" soldier - including our "homeland defense" folks in your hometown - coprs, fire department, etc. All of the frontline soldiers deserve quality equipment that will do the job - safely, and efficiently.

In spite of this, lots of folks think that the military has unlimited funds and can spend whatever it wants to on gear for the troops. How many guys do you know that have purchased some of their own field kit because its better than current issue? I did it all the time back in my military days, and I think the practice has gotten more comminplace now that USA company commanders have the authority for quick purchases of mission essential items that the supply system cannot meet.

Forgive my ranting on this issue since this is an optics thread, but its something that I see so often on the various boards and had to put in my .02.

BACK ON TOPIC: As far as USO or NF, they both make a great scope.

SCL

 

[Nighthawk]

DMCI, what the hell are you talking about?

Forgive my stupidity, but what MOS's and what does this mean?

"You manner recalls to me a certain E7 Cook in the movies with a budweiser on his jacket."

 

[DMCI]

[ 12-21-2003: Message edited by: DMCI ]

 

[DANTEC]

SCL
except your opignion of the governement money !!!just need to check the price of regular Unertl 10x mil specs scope !!! or military money came from...governement and governement get money with ......TAXS .

you write :
BACK ON TOPIC: As far as USO or NF, they both make a great scope.

Night Force perhaps good I doesnt them use but most shooters seem to be very happy with NF
BUT
USO are great scope yes perhaps but can you explain
what happen with MY SCOPES !!!pay with MY MONEY !!
Why SN9 has been NEVER delivery !
Why I never received demo model ( NOT for FREE but just borrowed for a SHOW ° !

and I am not the first customer to be not happy of USO I think .


When I received JUNK after to have pay I can write that the producy is JUNK and they have take me for a real dummy dummy same as the wonderfull 408 Chet TAC and the Lost River Company .

dont forget to explain me
what caliber , range , rifle need a 2 inch main tube with 300 moa of elevation

Shooting the purple Saturnian species on Jupiter planet during the next NASZ expidition in yaer 2341 ?

to come back serious

can you explain too what is all the judemenent information and copie of Law court papers you can read on UNERTL web site

that bit too much for one company , you doesn t think ?

I loose enought time and money with the USO company so I far prefer use time to put usefull infos in Forum than to continue to speak of a company as USO .

good shooting

DAN TEC

 

[xring01]

NightHawk,

Please read my post again, Because I do not think I ever stated what scope is best...

I stated that I support Companies that Support their product and take care of there customers.

Just because a company has the best product does not mean that they will succeed. It takes alot more than just products.

IT ALL STARTS WITH MANAGEMENT.

How would all of the people who bought US Optics scopes feel if US Optics went out of business because of, one to many law suits or ( A SHOT IN DARK HERE) MISMANAGEMENT.
If that $2500 scope breaks, it will make one hell of a paper weight.

I HONESTLY WISH US OPTICS THE BEST OF LUCK.

Living in CA, I have watched alot of highly trained people get laid off, those jobs went overseas. I deal with alot of very large companies who manufacture products for the Electric Utility Industry. Every quarter I see plants shut down. Jobs going to Mexico, Korea, Indonesia...etc.

If a company in the US wants to succeed it absolutly, positively has to take care of the customer. One mistake, the consumer buys a Overseas product at probably lesser quality/price. But you know what, IF IT FAILS IT IS REPLACED HASSLE FREE. Because the Overseas Manufacture is getting 1000 % Margins over the US Manufacturer.

Am I hard on US Optics, YES I AM. BECAUSE I AM TIRED OF SEEING GOOD PEOPLE LAID OFF AND COMPANYS CLOSING THERE DOORS BECAUSE OF MISMANAGEMENT.

When I spend my hard earned cash, I want to know that I will get what I paid for. If there is a shadow of a doubt, then my money goes elsewere or stays in the bank.

If any of you have a relationship with JBW or JBW3, you might want to forward my comments to them. Hopefully they might see what consumers think of their situation and quickly realize what needs to be done. US Optics has the opportunity to dominate the Scope market if they wanted to.

[ 12-21-2003: Message edited by: xring01 ]

 

[DANTEC]

pictures during match WITH RESULTS and DATA and shooters name not pictures of show PLEASE

even a picture of a costly AI with a USO doesn t impress me , It s seem you konw a lot of show and adds picture but on the range do youreally think that traget rae impress by money you have put in your rifles .

On AI rifle :
another good question if AI is the best ( close to best for military use and a real serious company ) and AI own a real engieneering departement and real service departement too .
Why they use S&B scope and NO USO ????

Why the wonderfull USO company have doesn t make answer for the QM project for AI that a good way to show a challenger to S&B ?

if you are in the god secret you can perhaps answer

Night Hawk

find your brain ( somewhere in your skull ) as soon as you have discover it ...
switch it on ( green light on )
wait some minutes to make sure that informations go straight and right in your finger and
after you can put an answer with your keyboard

that Christmas soon and sure there are plenty of toys in catalog , and as sson as you have finish one of your terrific project , really happy to sse pictures with detail and target on this board

No really need to insult me whith french position during the Irak war I have already explain you that there is a BIG diffrence between a government and citizen and I have NEVER mix BATF and the wonderfull past president with shooters and gun owner of USA

With the wonderfull law of Mister BIll CLINTON I have lost thousand USD in lost import goods BUT I have NEVER say that the fact of US Citizen .

But when a company as USO take me for a dummy I am in my right to say that this company is unhonnest and make mostly BIG ADDS rather to producy real good technical stuff and thre are more intresting to get deposit than to deliver some thing and when at least they deliver the order PLEASE deliver good to the value of the money , I have no need of dummy scope just good to make picture because sure that scopes on pictures always work ....

for EDM because you are too in the god secret

question 1: can you explain why the wonderfull 408 Chenne model seem work only in adds to , strange is n it because 408 Chyenne seem to be another and why a "serious " company as EDM have satrt to produce a complete rifle in a untested caliber with ghost bullet performance

Question 3 : Where are the 408 Cheyenne on the range with so amazing performances they probably hold of the world record since year , NO?

question 2 : How with a barrel hold by a screw and UZI machine gun and with scope on the receiver you sucess to get BR accuracy ....

last point : more you answer me more I will hit the nail on USO company ans USO quality and other ghost company
If you really want help USO that better to stop to explain me that sky is blue and that I can nice pictures in ADDS
Because I OWN USO and I am not as some a future next owner of the future terrific amazing scope ....with 2 inch main tube and 300 moa in to fit on my 414 Hypervelocity ultimate martian ghost hunter rifle

Good shooting if you shoot

DAN TEC

 

[Switchblade45]

"You manner recalls to me a certain E7 Cook in the movies with a budweiser on his jacket."
Tread Lightly...I cook, and I shoot, among other things.

Nice to see you around DMCI*, How's it going xring01, Nighthawk?

I am the one in Black, on the end...186-3x first time competitor

 

[Nighthawk]

Sorry DANTEC, I guess I don't have a brain so I don't really know how to use this keyboard and write anything. I never said that USO was better than something else if you don't want one don't buy one. I could really care less about the .408 at this point. And yes I do shoot, if I didn't I wouldn't be on this board or any other. Just because I'm a jackass kid doesn't mean I come on here and say I have what I don't and don't shoot when I do as much as possible. I'm a little busy with things right now so I can't go shooting every day, besides the range I go to is closed until March. Switchblade, things would be going a lot better if I never bothered to post on this topic at all, plus this is the second Christmas that my dad won't be here so things are not really good around this time of the year. How are you doing? Where are you in the black on the end?? I can't see you.

Sorry to everyone if I had just rambled on about things.

 

[DANTEC]

no problem Nighthawk

the goal of a forum is to SHARE real informations and KILL unhonnest company

that too easy to let think that something is the very best of ? just with some big nice pictures and costly adds and let people put money in a ghost product ,
result is unhappy customer , loose of interest for our spare time , closed factory of real good stuff because customer loose trust and JUST more rich ghost stuff dealer who after to have make money in shooting business wil became car dealer or tire dealer no problem as soon they make money

when I split on a company be sure that not just for fun or because my first coffe in the norming was too hot but enought is enought and I tired to read amazing adds performance fom company which are not able to delivery anything good and any thing in ratio of the price they charge or company as LRB which sale bullet at 2 buck each without to be able to publish any serious data except we have a patent on .... that the real question

good shooting

and take care

Merry Chrismass and hoppes your present will be not a faulty USO

DAN TEC

 

[Nighthawk]

DANTEC, to you and everyone else I have irritated the **** of. Please excuse my sarcasm, I do it quite well when I not in a good mood, and todays was not the greatest of one. Enjoy the holidays.

 

[Vern Harrison]

At this point, I think USO just needs to be honest with everyone, to stay in the market.

I hear complaints from folks that know scopes and tactical weapons, that they have sent scopes back with problems, only to get the scope back "fixed" and a note saying no problem found.

I guess with that you can claim a clean record.

I truely believe, USO may be making a great scope. Does it need to cost $2500+, I don't know. I think you can take this pricing to far. Maybe they don't want to sell alot of scopes. Maybe they are satisfied with the number of scopes, they are turning out.

To target the folks at SP, SH, SC and longrange shooters. I think they need only to make a few models, make them afordable, dependable and admit when there is a problem.

I think IMO, the average longrange shooter, will pay upwards to $1,500 for a scope that will take him futher then whats on the mass produced market today.

I believe I read at SP, where at the last tactical match in Tx, 3 USO scope failed. There appears to be a real problem here, and someone in the company need to admit it and fix it. Then come out in the open and say straight up ...this is what happened and we have corrected it. Now if they start failing on weapons our soldiers are using and LE, price doesn't mean crap.

Honesty one way or the other will prevail. I would like to see John111 make this company work, I think he is trying real hard to do this. Right now everyone is waiting to see what he says next, concerning the failed scopes at the Tactical match. I hope for his sakes he tells it straight. If he does I think it will go over alot better for him and the company.

[ 12-21-2003: Message edited by: Vern Harrison ]

 

[SCL]

Gents,
How many folks out there agree with Vern and believe that USO should limit their product line and move to a mass (or semi-mass) production line outfit? Dantec made the same recommendation a few posts back...

Am I the only guy here who thinks that USO's market niche is offering a truly custom scope - they offer things that no other manufacturer offers - i.e. "tell us what you want/need and we will build it for you if its physically possible." It may cost more than you would like, and take longer than you would like, but in the end, you are getting a custom item made for you - and you alone.

It is precisely this reason why I favor USO scopes on ultra long range guns - they will give me a scope with 200+MOA, reticle of choice, illumination or not, etc. etc. Is this process cheap - never; not with optics, not with guns, not with clothing, not with...anything.

I have had nothing but good luck with the USO products I have used, and customer service has improved greatly in recent times...YMMV (and has based upon posts from other members). Customer service and support will always be needed in this area, and honesty always goes a long way towards keeping your customers satisfied. They may not be happy with what they are paying, or projected delivery time, but in the end they will be satisfied if you are honest and deliver a great product as promised.

JW3: Please keep your company headed in the right direction, and stick to your business model - the marketplace needs someone who will provide a true custom product - most average shooters don't need it, and will bitch about the cost, but those that do need it will pay for it, and understand why a custom scope costs more than a high quality mass production item. Why compete for market share in the mass production arena when you absolutely own the custom market? The ST10 is a good crossover product for potential USO custom users, but don't loose sight (no pun intended) of the guys who need and appreciate truly custom products.

Just my .02

SCL

 

[DMCI]

Friday, I had a problem with my SN-3 on a AR-10T.

I mounted the scope and found that I was totally out of Windage and elevation. The scope was as far down as it would go and all the way to the left and still wouldn't center on the bore sighter.

I took it to the range to test it even further and it wasn't on the paper at all and this at 50 yards. I rechecked it with the bore sighter and still it wouldn't center. So I took the bolt out of the rifle and bore sighted it at 100 yards by looking down the bore and moving the scope until I got the same picture in the scope as I had in the bore.

Then I put the rifle back together and surprise I was on the paper, but a foot low and 8 inches left. I cranked the scope up about 12 moa up and 15 moa right and was in the black. I then moved the rifle to the 100 yard line and made the final corrections for 100 and everything is fine.

The bore sighter, a magnetic one is in the trash.

If I hadn't worked through the problem, I would have sent the scope back and later gotten a note saying that there was nothing wrong with the scope. Virtually every problem I had with a new USO scope could be traced to some form of mounting problem. I mentioned the difficulty getting the AR10 to take the Roll OFF mount to the Factory on the phone before I took it to the range and they said the gun manufacturer sometimes has problems with their rail straightness. This of course, was not the problem either.

The knowledge about mounting problems of one form or another being the cause of most problems with these scopes has saved me a ton in postage.

Other than Mushy clicks on one ST-10, I have never had problems with a USO scope. Had I been expecting difficulties I would have been one of those getting my scope back with a letter saying there was nothing wrong with it.

Another problem I had with the failure of a scope had to do with it not fitting on the rail. What I didn't realize at the time was that the scope was too far forward and the big power changing knob was hitting the rail. It was funny because at that very minute there was a guy that wanted to look through the scope and at the same time I was fighting the mounting problem. Unfortunately I must have seemed rude to him, but I just couldn't get the thing to set on the rifle properly. The after looking at the thing for a few minutes in a less stressful mode, I saw what the problem was, moved the scopes back a little and everything was fine. The problem was that it wasn't missing by much, and the rings would actually lock up, but not seat totally. Frustrating, especially when this guy almost insisted in looking through the scope at that very time.

I have a friend that is having a problem with a ST-10 EREK. He is having a problem getting it adjusted properly, but I think there is a possible problem with the instructions that came with the scope. That may have to be changed, or at least the verbal instructions he got are reversed from written instructions, we don't know yet.

It these cases there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the scopes, they all worked fine.

This of course is not to say that every problem with these scopes is a mounting problem, just everyone that I have had. I can only speak from personal experience.

I now have 8 USO scopes.

DAN TEC's big problem with USO, however appears to be the result of some business relationship issues between a Salesman and his principal and nothing whatever to do with product quality. What a novel situation that is!

D.

[ 12-22-2003: Message edited by: DMCI ]

 

[SCL]

DMCI,
I agree with you about mounting problems - these can happen with any maker's scopes and is a source of frustration, aggravation, wasted money on postage, etc. The first scope I ever mounted was a 10X Khales on a Rem700 police. Thought I was joe cool sniper with my high dollar Euro scope (this was long before the days where almost every police sniper gun had a Loopy on it.) Ran into the same problems you did until the local range gunsmith helped me out. I was on the verge of throwing that scope into the woods when that kind gentleman took pity on me and helped me out.

After re-reading most of Dantec's posts...well I think he's just ****ed off and flaming USO because he is bitter - but its a free country brother, and he has every right in the world to do so. I have since lumped him and his opinions into the "woman scorned" category - he is so ****ed off that he will never be objective, get closure, and take every chance to tell you how he was screwed over.

I just think its funny that he is ****ed at the 5% dealer discount, etc. etc. and yet he still chose to be a USO agent for France (or EU or whatever). If he had half a brain he would have realized all of the additional costs dealing with imporation hassles, paperwork, translation, etc. and would have known that 5% wouldn't cut it. If he was promised twenty percent one day and then told five percent the next, he should have walked away as well. Maybe we don't have all the facts or I missed something, but thats what I have gathered from his posts...it seems he did get a raw deal or miscommunication with USO, but if he was dealing with JW sr. that doesn't surprise me...but to continually flame the company just takes up bandwidth. Sever your business relationship, find a better supplier, tell folks about your experience once or twice as a warning or friendly advice, and then let it go for pete's sake.

I would like to hear his .408 story if he could write it without having to bitch every other sentence. Then again, he thinks all militaries are made of money, and that a custom scope manufacturer (USO) has the mass production facillities to offer their scopes as OEM items on AI rifles...so maybe his perception of reality and mine differ far to greatly for his opinions to be of use.

How long have you been a USO customer? Eight USO scopes is some serious coin, so you must be extremely satisfied with their products and service. Have you noticed any changes (good or bad) since JW3 took over the helm? Hit me offline if you want at [email protected]

SCL