Undermining Hammer?

[snox801]

Be kind.

How was that not nice? I thought it was just stating the obvious. Wasn't with bad intentions.

@CRP003, awesome avatar.

Your are not wrong. I also really like it.

 

[snox801]

Bean I will have to say you are growing on me. You used to drive me absolutely nuts but I am glad how you handle all this ! sho nuff
Next time I'm back to Terra I'll stop

Just to toss gas on the fire. I could only imagine why you didn't like him. Lol
Hammer fan!

I for one loved bean before and still do.
We need to realize that we can all have opinions and different results. At the end of the day we are all into the same thing. Very few of us I bet would not enjoy the other's company for a drink. Even if we disagree on bullets, rifles, cartridges, and trucks.

 

[ButterBean]

Bean I will have to say you are growing on me. You used to drive me absolutely nuts but I am glad how you handle all this ! sho nuff
Next time I'm back to Terra I'll stop

Would be great to see ya

 

[ButterBean]

You think I have a side of the story, you are incorrect, I've been trying to figure it out from what's posted online specifically so I dont end up with one side, I have my theories but as contentious as this is if I want to ask Steve I'd stop in and talk to him face to face.
So far all the cryptic BS has been one sided. I have not see a thread titled Undermining Fordy or *** is he Smoking? So far this is looking one sided!

What folks don't understand is Fordy has the same factual evidence of what bullets do for almost any bullet you can imagine, he's been doing this for decades, don't believe it? Ask him about any pill you want and he'll tell you the truth, what it does good, what it does bad and what not to do with it.
I'll repeat this again, there were a small group of us who embraced Hammers and spent thousands of dollars of our own money to help Steve and Brian (and we loved every minute of it) to strive for that 5% and they listened, and then they didn't.
I truly wish them the best they sit have some spectacular bullets in the line up and some not so much, once again I don't care what you shoot, if your good with let her eat

 

[Sealesniper]

I think there will always be two camps for any bullet. Some will love it and some will hate it. Where does the hate come from? Some from lost game with said bullet. Was it the bullets fault? Probably poor shot placement but game was lost so hard to verify. Then there are bullets people love and have supreme confidence in. For me I use almost completely across all calibers the ABLR. I have the utmost confidence in that bullet and if I do my part the deer are DRT. Every deer I shot this year with my ABLR's were dead in one or two steps if they took a step at all. I have lost a couple of animals over the decades but I am not sure I made the best shot so I can't blame the bullet.

As for Hammers. I tried to make them work for me. My twist was faster than needed but not by much for my 6.5x284, but after several attempts to dial in my loads, I gave up as it would not outperform what I was doing already with the ABLR. I must say I was disappointed as I had drunk the Kool-Aid and expected unreal accuracy and results. While I do not hold them accountable for this as I am a realist, I can see how it could turn some into a hater.

I have several buddies that ONLY shoot Berger's VLD's and kill AND FIND 99% of what they shoot at. I lost 3 deer in one season with Berger's with zero blood trail. In the thick brush of Hyde county, no blood trail is a lost deer even if you are 3 feet from it as you can't see it. I have thousands of unloaded Berger's and they are very accurate for target shooting, but I lost faith in them and have zero confidence in them as a hunting round, even though my buddies slay deer with them. So, my point is, is there something inherently wrong with a Berger? Some say yes, and others have proof to verify a strong NO. Again, I think it is what you have confidence in. Like a well fitted shotgun. You don't aim, you point and shoot and hit what you shot at. With a confidence in your gun and bullet, you can make good ethical shots, with excellent shot placement and that is what takes the animal down. The well placed shot is paramount. I firmly believe that any modern bullet (proper size and weight for application) will kill any animal as long as shot placement is correct and terminal energy is adequate for the size of the animal. After that, bullet failures are on the shooter not the bullet.

 

[bigngreen]

What folks don't understand is Fordy has the same factual evidence of what bullets do for almost any bullet you can imagine, he's been doing this for decades, don't believe it? Ask him about any pill you want and he'll tell you the truth, what it does good, what it does bad and what not to do with it.
I'll repeat this again, there were a small group of us who embraced Hammers and spent thousands of dollars of our own money to help Steve and Brian (and we loved every minute of it) to strive for that 5% and they listened, and then they didn't.
I truly wish them the best they sit have some spectacular bullets in the line up and some not so much, once again I don't care what you shoot, if your good with let her eat

I think maybe we're getting closer to it, more folks understand what Fordy has done than you think and it's great to have something that we can take and see if it replicate for us and if it does were have more conformation if not we decide what to do with it. Again, I went from having a wonderful thread with Fordy to *** in a day so I'm an average guy now parsing out what to think, all of this likely won't change how I hold each party.

Don't think you are the only one that has spent huge time and money helping someone in the industry, it was a hard lesson I learned a long time ago that my personal buy in buys me zero leverage or right to anything more than anyone else, I give my input and keep moving. My vote is only with my dollar!

I understand the personal attachment only to see it go up in smoke, it took me a few years to come to the conclusion the other party has reason and decisions to make that I have no idea about so maybe I wasn't right to be butt hurt, especially when I didn't do what it took to be in their position.

 

[belldar]

So you don't use them but have a strong reaction to how the bullet performs?

Got it. The other is a valid point.

But hear me out I have brought up issues to Steve on my own. He worked out a solution and fixed the problem. Happened with the 300 blk bullet.
Never once did he act like I was the problem.

Second case in point is I tried to buy 500 big .375 bullets for him when they were new to the game. Both Steve and Brian told me they would not feel good about selling me the 409gr at the time as it was not gonna meet the goal I had that the cutting edge was doing for me.
So honestly and integrity is not the issue for them. I get they are not some people's cup of tea. But from my experience they are honest and have integrity. Turning a way a fairly large order on expensive bullets to do the customer right shows it. Thats was before I knew either gentleman's name.
Let's not forget when is the last time anyone has been able to communicate with Berger, Hornady or nosler.

Of course I don't use them! I tried a few a while back and hated that to be accurate they needed to be on the verge of pressure or over pressure to shoot well. I hated the darn rings around them and was not comfortable with them staying at the seating depth I seated them to. Also hated the fact I had to get crimp dies to try and make them work and those just made things worse. Didn't like the way they hit targets for me(steel) and how the didn't seem have the power of my Bergers, Nolser, or Sierras. I did not personally take an animal with any of them but I had a buddy try one on and elk(246g 338RUM) and long story short is that that elk was not recovered. After all that and then hearing an advocate/owner(?) on this site bash and belittle people about said bullets I quite even messing with them. Rant over

 

[snox801]

Of course I don't use them! I tried a few a while back and hated that to be accurate they needed to be on the verge of pressure or over pressure to shoot well. I hated the darn rings around them and was not comfortable with them staying at the seating depth I seated them to. Also hated the fact I had to get crimp dies to try and make them work and those just made things worse. Didn't like the way they hit targets for me(steel) and how the didn't seem have the power of my Bergers, Nolser, or Sierras. I did not personally take an animal with any of them but I had a buddy try one on and elk(246g 338RUM) and long story short is that that elk was not recovered. After all that and then hearing an advocate/owner(?) on this site bash and belittle people about said bullets I quite even messing with them. Rant over

So a bullet that's know to be easy to load for was tough. They can do that. Valid point But the way they hit steel? You know that the power can be measured right?

As for your buddy and his 338 not getting an elk. I've posted several elk I've take one score over 350 with my 6.5 creedmore at 608 yards fell in 20 yards.
Again this is how it starts. Someone with no or little experience chiming in with things that are irrelevant or just claims that can't be proven.
Only valid point you made was they were hard to get to shoot. Nobody needs the crimp. I don't except on ar's

So to sum it up they just didn't make you feel comfortable? That is a valid reason in itself but but the rest seem like a stretch.

 

[choprzrul]

Belldar.....that's a lot of hate....

 

[snox801]

Belldar.....that's a lot of hate....

If you got hate in your heart. Let it out!

 

[Muddyboots]

Of course I don't use them! I tried a few a while back and hated that to be accurate they needed to be on the verge of pressure or over pressure to shoot well. I hated the darn rings around them and was not comfortable with them staying at the seating depth I seated them to. Also hated the fact I had to get crimp dies to try and make them work and those just made things worse. Didn't like the way they hit targets for me(steel) and how the didn't seem have the power of my Bergers, Nolser, or Sierras. I did not personally take an animal with any of them but I had a buddy try one on and elk(246g 338RUM) and long story short is that that elk was not recovered. After all that and then hearing an advocate/owner(?) on this site bash and belittle people about said bullets I quite even messing with them. Rant over

Maybe I am missing something, are you Belldar from the Conehead family?

 

[CRP003]

Were they Hht bullets because you would not like how you have to use a harbor freight mallet to install your tips? Why Is there a pile on Belldar. He is just stating his experience.

 

[belldar]

So a bullet that's know to be easy to load for was tough. They can do that. Valid point But the way they hit steel? You know that the power can be measured right?

As for your buddy and his 338 not getting an elk. I've posted several elk I've take one score over 350 with my 6.5 creedmore at 608 yards fell in 20 yards.
Again this is how it starts. Someone with no or little experience chiming in with things that are irrelevant or just claims that can't be proven.
Only valid point you made was they were hard to get to shoot. Nobody needs the crimp. I don't except on ar's

So to sum it up they just didn't make you feel comfortable? That is a valid reason in itself but but the rest seem like a stretch.

You Sir are awesome! Congrats on killing an elk with a creedmoor. Now let some that actually have tried different things voice their opinions and don't get so butt hurt

Maybe I am missing something, are you Belldar from the Conehead family?

It's a family nick name that came before the movie

 

[Muddyboots]

I drive a 2009 Ram 2500, quad cab, 8' box, it is by far the best truck EVER made.