Undermining Hammer?

[adam32+P]

It's pretty simple really...look at how Eric Stecker with Berger used to respond, look at how George with Badlands used to respond and then look at the higher than thou attitude that Steve responds with. He used to take input, actually be able to have a civil conversation with etc and now his head has gotten so big that he's forgotten who supported him and made his company successful. Does he make a good bullet, absolutely. Is it so amazing that it's the only thing anyone should ever shoot and has zero faults whatsoever? NOPE! Each and every time any type of fault or criticism is directed towards a Hammer bullet there is always an excuse and blame placed on the shooter.

It's a freaking bullet. Who cares! Literally any other quality bullet can kill any animal in the world just as easily.

 

[Petey308]

I've been on here and long time, I've seen many fellow members go from just a regular guy on here to, "I think I have an idea" to being a sponsor with a business. I maybe wrong but I've never seen it go well if they involve the forum in their business. They take things harder and make concessions they shouldn't because its home turf so to speak.
On the forum member side they somehow seem to act like they have a personal stake in the company and get offended at a whole other level when they feel wronged which turns into a crap show that no one wins in.

This is one reason Len has the rules he has on threads like this, I remember when there we're not so many rules but it's necessary now as it seems there is a hidden agenda behind almost anything.

I completely agree.

 

[Petey308]

I think you hit the nail on the head. I think sometimes entrepreneurs and the like get to a point where they are tired, sick of R&D and also taking feedback. I think we have all been there in our personal lives where we are done or need a break. Go go go gets exhausting and we all need a break. Hard to do that if your business has been centered around input from all angles. Not an easy way out of that other than just letting things be. Maybe I'm wrong here. Just my $.02. I dont get personal attached to products but I do appreciate small start up businesses and ma & pa shops.

Very insightful and valid points. Thanks.

 

[Quintus]

It would seem that everything made popular or given high praise must suffer this ridicule through to it's conclusion and sink or swim with the result. Berger went through it, Hornady is/has gone through it, the 6.5 creed has taken years of down right irrational bashing. Look at how many threads have been devoted now to Hammer bullets in the last couple of months. There have not been any itemized break-downs of the shortcomings of each iteration of Nosler, Sierra, Barnes, or even Berger in quite some time, at least not that has gotten any traction. A parting shot here or thereon those, but just intense debate on all versions of one brand. If you like Hammers you're a zealot supporter drunk on koolaid. If you don't like them you're a part of the enlightened crowd that knows deep down these bullets are just plain flawed. I guess what has me puzzled is, if you are not a fan, don't think they are good bullets, and don't care for the owners, why not just move on and shoot what you like and forget about Hammer Bullets? People like them and support them for the same reason they like Bergers or Noslers or whatever - It's because they have had good experiences with them. It is hard for people to accept when others tell them not to believe their own lying eyes. I could give two sheetz who does or doesn't like any given thing and I am always curious why anyone else does either.

 

[Petey308]

No it doesn't make it right and that respect gets lost.

I guess to an extent what I'm getting at is that some people don't eventually come around and some people just aren't good at that relationship with the public and that's OK. If they are not good with the public find the people that are and use them with the interactions with the public. It is detrimental to a company period. I've watched this unfold for years and it has been an ugly snowball that even I add to at times because I've lost that respect with an individual. That person maybe just a real good guy but should not think there is group(s) out to get him. I really don't care a whole lot what people shoot. I don't care what caliber they use. It's just fun to do what we do and have differences. I get that its business to think or say you have the "best"! Just know when statements like that are made it creates backlash.

I completely agree and I do think it's indeed best for certain owners/employees to stay off social media or at least not interact at a level that could get them sucked into things emotionally.

That's why a lot of guys that publish written works do so in a place you can't really comment on publicly, such as magazine articles, books, etc. It's kind of like, "here it is, take it or leave it".

I see a lot of companies make posts or product plugs on social media and just completely ignore any comment section. I think ultimately that's for the best. It doesn't get them involved one way or the other. That said, there's definitely value in being involved with your customer base on a personal level. It takes a special person though for that and that can handle it properly and appropriately.

 

[Quintus]

It's a freaking bullet. Who cares! Literally any other quality bullet can kill any animal in the world just as easily.

This Exactly!!!

 

[snox801]

I know, I know, get the popcorn popping.... hear me out though, if you would.

I've been following the discussions about Hammer Bullets for several years now, and something has been bugging me (I know I'm not the only one too). Why are so many people quick to assume that any criticism of the bullet(s) or company is an attempt to undermine them?

From what I've seen, most of the comments are pointing out issues like areas for improvement, overstated claims, potential flaws, or concerns with things like advertised ballistic coefficients. These seem like valid critiques, not attempts to sabotage the company. I haven't seen anyone truly trying to take Hammer Bullets down. I'll admit that I personally have been a critic of these things myself, but while I consider myself a critic, I do not consider myself trying to legitimately undermine anyone.

On the flip side, I've noticed that supporters of the company, and even the company co-owner at times, often react defensively to these criticisms. It's like they jump straight to the conclusion that anyone pointing out perceived flaws must have an agenda or just dislike Hammer Bullets altogether. In some cases, it's gone so far as to imply that people are fabricating bad experiences just to damage the company's reputation. I've even seen multiples times it said that even comparing Hammers to other copper bullets is an attack on Hammer, because they're not like any other copper bullet.

That's what confuses me. What would anyone really stand to gain by deliberately trying to undermine Hammer Bullets? The people making these critiques seem like regular guys and hunters. They aren't competitors with something to gain from Hammer failing as a business.

I'm genuinely curious, why all the hostility? Why assume the worst about someone who's offering criticism? I think open and honest feedback is how companies improve, and dismissing it as sabotage seems counterproductive.

It creates divisiveness and I do think at a point, after people are mistreated on both sides, there is some personal offenses taken and perhaps some do develop a bit of a grudge, which is unfortunate. Perhaps at that point, once tempers flair, it's just assumed people are out for each other?

I'd love to hear your thoughts. Why do you think this reaction happens? What's driving all the defensiveness, and do you think there's a better way to handle these discussions?

Looking forward to hearing your perspectives!

Well part of it is for me people that have not used them or have used them very little hating them. I could give a ton of examples of people with one or two animals taken or even none. Talking bad about them.

I truly think it is two fold. People that like them like myself and people that will hate them just because they gained a lot of attention fast.
Kinda like the 6.5 creedmore. People love to hate them because they have been successful. Perfect nope but I've had great luck. And everyone knows I go with whatever bullet had been working the best for me. It's had me try and use almost every bullet.

Nothing new here to see. Bring up any old Berger thread and it's the same thing just replace the name of the bullet.

 

[snox801]

While your insight there is appreciated, my questions weren't why to use Hammers or not to use them, or why you use them or not, why you think others don't use them, or why others do, or why people have the issues that they do.

I realize that may sound snarky, but I don't at all mean it that way. I'm simply clarifying the point and intent of the thread.

Your question is kinda nuts that like asking why drive a ford or Chevy.

That's an age old debate. Chevy works for some peoples intended purpose and ford for others.

 

[FireFlyFishing]

I have an idea:

If you don't like a product or the company that makes the product, don't buy the product.

The end.

 

[adam32+P]

I have an idea:

If you don't like a product or the company that makes the product, don't buy the product.

The end.

The issue is; when someone likes the product, buys the product, but then finds issues with the product and then told it's not the products fault but that you used the product incorrectly, or at the wrong altitude, or shot the wrong animal, or have the wrong gun, or used it on an even day of the week instead of an odd etc etc etc.

 

[CRP003]

Well part of it is for me people that have not used them or have used them very little hating them. I could give a ton of examples of people with one or two animals taken or even none. Talking bad about them.

People that like them like myself and people that will hate them just because they gained a lot of attention fast.
Kinda like the 6.5 creedmore. People love to hate them because they have been successful. Perfect nope but I've had great luck. And everyone knows I go with whatever bullet had been working the best for me. It's had me try and use almost every bullet.

Nothing new here to see. Bring up any old Berger thread and it's the same thing just replace the name of the bullet.

I'm not sure I agree on the sentiment that people hate them because they are successful? Or because the gained a lot of attention?
I don't go out and say I hate x,y, and z company because they are successful or because they are popular.

 

[FireFlyFishing]

The issue is; when someone likes the product, buys the product, but then finds issues with the product and then told it's not the products fault but that you used the product incorrectly, or at the wrong altitude, or shot the wrong animal, or have the wrong gun, or used it on an even day of the week instead of an odd etc etc etc.

Which means you don't like the company. Don't buy their product.

 

[Petey308]

It would seem that everything made popular or given high praise must suffer this ridicule through to it's conclusion and sink or swim with the result. Berger went through it, Hornady is/has gone through it, the 6.5 creed has taken years of down right irrational bashing. Look at how many threads have been devoted now to Hammer bullets in the last couple of months. There have not been any itemized break-downs of the shortcomings of each iteration of Nosler, Sierra, Barnes, or even Berger in quite some time, at least not that has gotten any traction. A parting shot here or thereon those, but just intense debate on all versions of one brand. If you like Hammers you're a zealot supporter drunk on koolaid. If you don't like them you're a part of the enlightened crowd that knows deep down these bullets are just plain flawed. I guess what has me puzzled is, if you are not a fan, don't think they are good bullets, and don't care for the owners, why not just move on and shoot what you like and forget about Hammer Bullets? People like them and support them for the same reason they like Bergers or Noslers or whatever - It's because they have had good experiences with them. It is hard for people to accept when others tell them not to believe their own lying eyes. I could give two sheetz who does or doesn't like any given thing and I am always curious why anyone else does either.

Yep. Good points and perspective, thanks.

I for one like to find the good and bad in all kinds of bullets and am always looking for what stands out the most as a top performer.

 

[snox801]

I'm not sure I agree on the sentiment that people hate them because they are successful? Or because the gained a lot of attention?
I don't go out and say I hate x,y, and z company because they are successful or because they are popular.

Not everyone no. But that's why I said it like the 6.5 creedmore. Like hammers odd used in proper parameters they work fine. So does the creedmore but look at the hate it also gets. Many time buy people that in the same sentence will sing about how great a 7mm-08 is. When if fact they are dam near the same when it come to performance.
Plus nobody comes out and says they hate a product but the fact is a lot of the negativity is in deed that. Some just can't admit it. Plenty of things I hate just because they are the new hot thing.